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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#461

Post by BurningFrog »

int_handler wrote: post #313
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

Driver engagement is exactly what I don't want, so I strongly prefer automatic.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#462

Post by tom_ »

AWildC182 wrote: post #82
dazc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'...so it definitely prevents a lot of phone usage. From the UK, where stick shift is very much the norm, it doesn't.

I doubt it prevents it, but I think it might lessen it. I remember at one point in my teens seeing someone driving a manual Miata in traffic while putting on makeup, texting and drinking a soda, all in a car famous for not having cup holders. It was pretty impressive...

In the UK the gear stick is on the left, so even if you have a manual gearbox your right hand is still free for the phone.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#463

Post by codazoda »

statictype wrote: post #456
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

Do you use the paddle shifters. Ever? I have one of those triptronic things thinking I can always get manual control when I want and I don't think I used it even once

I use it it mountains, much the same way I downshift an old automatic. Mine still down shifts when I'm in manual mode with the pardles, which is kinda annoying.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#464

Post by brownbat »

developer2 wrote: post #410
chrisdhoover wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

I don't know where you live that you can stay in 2nd and crawl. Where I live, the moment you leave a few inches between your front bumper and the car in front of you, someone is guaranteed to cut you off and force you to brake to prevent hitting them. When I say "inches", I mean inches - 6-8 inches of space is enough for someone to think "I'll just squeeze in here".

Hello New Jersey? :)

I worry there's a sampling bias going on.

When I commuted to work, I'd keep the same tight pattern everyone else used, and it felt like any time I let up, some jerk would take advantage.

Then, for a while, I was suddenly paid to go between buildings on opposite sides of one of the worst traffic cities in the US. I always left with plenty of time and no urgency, so I would just stubbornly maintain plenty of stopping distance while everyone else was inches apart. Smoothing my braking pattern became a game.

If you constantly leave that much room people weaving in becomes rare enough that you barely care when it happens.

I feel like there's some bias affecting perception. Maybe it's a confound, or availability heuristic.

Confound - if you're trying to hug a bumper, and suddenly there's a gap, maybe that's because your lane is suddenly moving faster and someone's taking advantage of that. If you always have space, you'll have it even when your lane is less attractive. (ie, The space doesn't make your lane attractive, the pace does.)

Availability heuristic - if you care about people cutting you off and are adopting a strategy to prevent it, you will notice it more and put more weight on those occurrences than on all the seconds where no one is cutting you off.

Before I had that job, I would have read this comment and thought it was nuts though, so not sure if anyone will actually believe me.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#465

Post by thinkmassive »

entee wrote: post #412
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

At this point performance cars are no longer truly exploitable on a road legally. Yeah you can do a quick acceleration at the occasional stoplight, but on pretty much no public road are you going to get to a speed that's close to the car's limit. And if you do, it'll be insanely dangerous because even though safety systems are amazing these days, your reaction time isn't any faster than it used to be and the people a…

Acceleration is a lot more fun than velocity for most people. You can experience high acceleration (in all directions) at low speeds in a good nimble sports car, and stay completely within the spirit of the law.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#466

Post by analog31 »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #421
philwelch wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to drive stick is still a useful skill if you want to operate heavy trucks or ride motorcycles, neither of which tend to have an automatic transmission. It’s not an option that I would want to go away. Also, I might have used valet parking once in my life. Handing my car over to someone who can’t drive stick is something I’m willing to live without—especially when you remember that many car thieves can’t dri…

Most big trucks and farm equipment are automatic now (source: family of truckers and farmers). The takeover was quite recent but I don't know any truck companies buying manuals these days other than owner-drivers who are enthusiasts about their trucks too (eg the type to modify and do them up). I'm a massive car nut, I've owned and (amateur-)raced dozens of cars over the last 20 years and always went manual, but a co…

Indeed, even at the level of mundane passenger cars, I think automatics have gotten a lot better. My first car was a 1975 Dodge with 3-speed automatic. You kind of had to "play" it, in order to make it shift at the right time, e.g., for passing.

My family now has a Toyota minivan. The transmission shifts smoothly and intelligently, and downshifting with the gear selector when descending in the mountains seems to be no problem.

Even better, we rented a big passenger van this summer in Europe, and its transmission seemed to "know" when we were on a descent, and downshifted accordingly. It was pretty cool.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#467

Post by robjan »

tom_ wrote: post #462
AWildC182 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it prevents it, but I think it might lessen it. I remember at one point in my teens seeing someone driving a manual Miata in traffic while putting on makeup, texting and drinking a soda, all in a car famous for not having cup holders. It was pretty impressive...

In the UK the gear stick is on the left, so even if you have a manual gearbox your right hand is still free for the phone.

How about the steering wheel. Driving at any speed while holding your phone is quite hard on a manual unless you are happy to destroy your gearbox

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#468

Post by emodendroket »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #450
emodendroket wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like sixty miles. It takes 90 minutes without traffic.

> It's like sixty miles. It takes 90 minutes without traffic. At an average of 40 miles per hour that's not particularly bad. The people complaining about driving in stop-and-go traffic are almost certainly in much worse traffic than that. The example I gave of getting from one end of San Francisco to another happens pretty much every holiday weekend. Average speed? About 3 mph. The worst part is the uphill approach…

> At an average of 40 miles per hour that's not particularly bad.

I gave you the time it would take if you drove at mid-day, not at rush hour (hence the "without traffic" qualifier). A lot of people commute to New York, as you might imagine (and you have to go through toll booths and there was non-stop construction), but my hours were variable at that particular job so I didn't always get the same experience. It wasn't part of my normal commute, but I assure you the George Washington Bridge isn't any better than the Golden Gate, and I have also driven over that in heavy traffic.

Anyway, I've done that and I've commuted on Massachusetts highways (allegedly among the worst in the country). I didn't enjoy it but my point is that driving an automatic car didn't make it any better.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#469

Post by m3kw9 »

It used to be a form of saving money and better control of your car, but now is more of an acquired taste to want to use manual shift. For me, the fun is in doing perfect rev match down shifts or doing a goo toe-heel move before a tight turn. Otherwise comparing to all the AI and radars, there isn’t much practical use anymore.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#470

Post by RaceWon »

H1Supreme wrote: post #420
RaceWon wrote: post #409

I raced cars with non-synchronized transmissions for some years, which means you have to heel and toe (and blip the throttle) to engage a lower gear, and I always drove my MT street cars the same way. About 8 years ago though I switched to automatic with a VW GTI. There truly is no comparison, dual clutches and in sport mode the car executes a throttle blip on down shifts so I can left foot brake all the time and alw…

What about down shifting into first gear when coming to a stop? Is it jarring with a dual clutch? On my motorcycle I almost never shift into 1st before stopping because of the engine braking (even with a throttle blip). I just grab the clutch and coast until I stop.

So if we're on the same page driving a MT: the reason we're blipping the throttle is so that we don't upset the balance (front to rear) of the vehicle, and we do our blip just before shifting to 1st from 2nd and ideally we've judged it correctly so there is no change of pitch from engine braking.

So with a dual clutch AT vehicle, under savagely hard threshold braking there is no gear related pitch change. And under normal driving there is none either. To be clear though I only tested the GTI at a small "pitch and catch" autocross style track once, but I did drive all of VW's vehicles that day, it was a manufacturers test day.

Here's a Wikipedia explanation

"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission "

Bikes and cars have significantly different engine power characteristics. I'm guessing you ride a sport bike?

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