Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 307 posts

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#261

Post by dmode »

dragontamer wrote: post #173
dmode wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company that went from selling 11 cars in 2011 to 200k cars in 2018 is poorly run ?

A company that went from losing $49 million per quarter in 2011 to losing $742 million per quarter in Q2 2018 is poorly run. Yes. That's pretty bad. Their growth is quite backwards, they've learned to lose more money over time. http://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesla... http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/7235e525-db16-470c-8dce-9ec...

Not sure what your point is. If you are growinig like crazy in a capital intense industry, you are bound to grow your loses. Tesla could have chosen to sell zero cars and have zero losses. What matters is demand and profitable unit economica (Tesla cars have healthy gross margins)

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#262

Post by dmode »

brianpgordon wrote: post #249
dmode wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's liquidity issues are completely overblown. Nevermind that their cashflow and spend numbers are improving. People also tend to overlook the amount of investor liquidity we have in the market. SoftBank has a $100bn fund. Saudi's have a $1 trillion sovereign wealth fund. I believe the UAE have something similar as well. Raising a couple billion dollars in this environment would be extremely easy. Especially when…

I don't think you'll find many people claiming that Tesla is on the brink of bankruptcy. You'll find plenty of people saying that the stock is overvalued and they bet it will go down (possibly to zero over a longer time horizon). The point is that if Tesla wants to remain solvent then it will be forced to offer an attractive chunk of equity as part of a raise, and that will be a blow to the share price. They're out o…

Who cares if they offer equity ? Would anybody remember that 5 years from now ? I have no recollection of when they raised equity in the past.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#263

Post by perl4ever »

scottkduncan wrote: post #237
smolder wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those things bother me. Being a conformist is not a virtue in a business culture marked by top-heavy bureaucracy, mediocrity, me-too hype chasing, and slow decline. Economists, board members, bankers, c-level execs - the shot callers of the world are much less clever and equipped to lead than they collectively think they are. If you think hitting a joint is a red flag, I wonder what kind. It's just showman…

> Economists, board members, bankers, c-level execs - the shot callers of the world are much less clever and equipped to lead than they collectively think they are. I completely agree with this, but disagree that Musk is constructively channeling his creativity and nonconformity here. He's trying to pivot from a niche product for tech enthusiasts to a mass market car, with a client base whose first questions will be…

To me, the senior execs leaving is what's probative. Reading between the lines, the CFO left because he feels Musk is unstable and doesn't know what to expect. I take that as much more significant than my own perception of Musk or some random person on the internet. Also, I tend to discount FUD about cash and production goals, but again, I weight the insiders' actions much more highly.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#264

Post by api »

perl4ever wrote: post #259
api wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who bought a Tesla and is now asking for a buy-back. His experience has convinced me the negative hype isn't all just shorts propagandizing and "Musk fatigue." This company has huge, huge problems. When he first got the Tesla it had huge body panel alignment problems. Eventually these were fixed, but it took too long and was difficult to get Tesla to fully acknowledge them. After that he had a range o…

"The shadow braking thing really reveals how primitive "AI" actually is-- this is something a bumblebee would not do, and its brain consumes milliwatts of power." I'm not impressed with self-driving AI so far, but I think you should be fair if you're comparing it to bugs. Insects are notoriously not good at avoiding collisions on the highways.

I'm comparing path finding and other navigational and body maneuvering abilities within the context of their world and constraints. Insects are very good at navigating their space and other very complex behaviors that are at least as difficult as driving a car.

I was comparing the two to illustrate how far behind biology we still are when it comes to AI. Our AIs consume hundreds or thousands of watts and are demonstrably inferior to the brains of insects that consume milliwatts. We are many orders of magnitude behind what biological brains can do both in absolute terms and in terms of efficiency. The difference in efficiency is so large I think it argues strongly for unknown unknowns -- things living brains are doing that we simply don't understand at all.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#265

Post by perl4ever »

Nokinside wrote: post #40

If Tesla needs more money, investors will use that as a leverage to get the Elon Musk problem addressed. It would be good for everyone if there is intervention that corrects the problem and Musk could continue. Investors can demand to have someone who can veto his craziest decisions and publicity or they can force him out. Musk has structured the board so that nobody has power over him. He must know that if asks more…

"Musk seems to be highly functioning bipolar"

It could be that pot is exacerbating problems with that.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#266

Post by dmode »

seebee wrote: post #235
dmode wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's liquidity issues are completely overblown. Nevermind that their cashflow and spend numbers are improving. People also tend to overlook the amount of investor liquidity we have in the market. SoftBank has a $100bn fund. Saudi's have a $1 trillion sovereign wealth fund. I believe the UAE have something similar as well. Raising a couple billion dollars in this environment would be extremely easy. Especially when…

Tesla automotive does not have a 20% margin, it's much closer to 10%. In the '18-H letter they claimed 20% margins including ZEV/GHG credits and added back Services & Other (in all Tesla 10-Q's the Services & Other are subtracted). Tesla calculates gross margin by not only including the ZEV/GHG credits but by basing the margin on the retail price of the vehicle rather than the bulk invoice. Cost of stores and R&D exp…

Can you point to a source ? I am looking at Q2 statement and gross margin before ZEV is 20%. With ZEV it is 21%. It's on page 2 here

http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/7235e525-db16-470c-8dce-9ec...

Also, gross margin is literally margin after cost of goods. Doesn't include SG&A expense.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#267

Post by perl4ever »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #137
Nokinside wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla sold more cars in the US that Mercedes and BMW this summer? How many media reported that? Please, that was one month of backlog deliveries (July, 16,000 deliveries) and only in the US. 16, Nobody expects that Tesla manufactures 16,000 Model 3's per month. Meanwhile Mercedes sells 30,000 C-Class Saloon and Estate models per month globally. In the US Mercedes and BMW each keep delivering 12,000 or so vehicles pe…

You're right, because August is the month during which Tesla surpassed both BMW and Mercedes. We're in September so how can there be more than a month? Both BMW and Mercedes US car sales are falling hard: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180904005710/en/Mer... , https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180904005748/en/BMW...

Is there something going on with tariffs?

It was well publicized that the President doesn't want people buying Mercedes.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#268

Post by perl4ever »

wetKoala wrote: post #244
cecja wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just retarded. The guy which tells people with depression to snap out of it. If you think there is no way to manipulate yourself into a delusion you better read a bit more than the wikipedia article of the term you want to school people on the internet.

Hey, wow, you still used the term incorrectly the first time. And continue to do so even now. Did I say it's not possible to do something like that? No. No, I didn't. I did not say that anything is prevented by anything. I'm saying you used a word incorrectly. What you just said you're trying to talk about? That word doesn't mean what you just said.

Being crazy subjectively seems like being gaslighted by everyone else. I think "gaslighting yourself" amounts to a figure of speech that means the same thing. While you may not think it's a technically correct usage, there are other similar expressions in English. I would say it's an example of an oxymoron.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#269

Post by perl4ever »

jklein11 wrote: post #234
gbear605 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re in the SF bubble, my friend.

I don't live anywhere near SF although I do live on the North East Coast of USA so I suppose I am subject to the bias you are talking about. Tesla mass producing their cars has been a massive headache for them. I think it would have benefited shareholders if they had stuck to the niche of luxury vehicles that they were demonstrating success in.

I think it's easy to overlook just how long it takes to establish a car business in the US, or assume it's different because this is the future. Hyundai started selling cars in America over 30 years ago, and they're still kind of an upstart. It took them almost 20 years to refocus on quality and overhaul their reputation for building junk. Tesla has only been around for a decade.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#270

Post by slededit »

mr_toad wrote: post #256
slededit wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who may be behind a auto-brake slamming Tesla one day, where is my opt-out from this dangerous beta?

> where is my opt-out Don’t tailgate.

A randomly stopping car is dangerous even to people who aren't tailgating. A human would be charged with dangerous driving for that - which is a felony in my jurisdiction.
Post reply on HN