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Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

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Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#31

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

api wrote: post #18
chollida1 wrote: post #3

And their Chief People Officer, is not coming back from her leave. From the outside it looks like Telsa is about going to go into a tough winter like moment. They are almost losing by winning. They are at capacity in their Fremont factory but still not making a profit. They need to start designing and building out manufacturing facilities for their next car and the help bolster Model X manufacturing. Stop and think f…

I have a friend who bought a Tesla and is now asking for a buy-back. His experience has convinced me the negative hype isn't all just shorts propagandizing and "Musk fatigue." This company has huge, huge problems. When he first got the Tesla it had huge body panel alignment problems. Eventually these were fixed, but it took too long and was difficult to get Tesla to fully acknowledge them. After that he had a range o…

>After that he had a range of little annoying problems, many of which were likely software bugs, but then he (actually his GF) experienced something in autopilot mode known on the Tesla forums as "shadow braking" -- the car braking hard on the highway because it seems to see the shadow of an overpass and think it's a wall. This is extremely dangerous. It was on the I-405 (SoCal) going 70-80mph, and such a thing could easily cause a rear end collision.

Why is he not leaving the beta of Autopilot then? The car would still be better than the competition in most domain (acceleration, navigation, range...) wouldn't it?

Does your friend believe the car is worthless if it isn't on Autopilot? All benchmarks of driver assist systems show that Tesla is far better than comparable cars, so it's pretty dumb to ask for a buy-back for a car because of such a small and extra feature. He could have asked for a buy-back of the Autopilot option but then, your comment wouldn't add to the conversation (that would be a non story, actually, considering all the Tesla owners who love it).

What does he think of the rest of the car?

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#32

Post by jacknews »

api wrote: post #18
chollida1 wrote: post #3

And their Chief People Officer, is not coming back from her leave. From the outside it looks like Telsa is about going to go into a tough winter like moment. They are almost losing by winning. They are at capacity in their Fremont factory but still not making a profit. They need to start designing and building out manufacturing facilities for their next car and the help bolster Model X manufacturing. Stop and think f…

I have a friend who bought a Tesla and is now asking for a buy-back. His experience has convinced me the negative hype isn't all just shorts propagandizing and "Musk fatigue." This company has huge, huge problems. When he first got the Tesla it had huge body panel alignment problems. Eventually these were fixed, but it took too long and was difficult to get Tesla to fully acknowledge them. After that he had a range o…

Indeed, though I think tesla is part of a strategic solar plan, so losing one pillar could see the roof fall.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#33

Post by meowface »

dasil003 wrote: post #21
spiderfarmer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they should fire him, but he should most definately do the un-american thing: work a sane amount of hours and go on vacation every now and then.

I don't care how much he works, but he's gotta do something about his thin skin and incompetence with the media.

He just needs to stop doing PR.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#35

Post by fencepost »

As someone who's not obsessively following Tesla, I'm a bit jaded by these. I'm sure there are problems, but what feels like massive PR efforts by the "shorts" has effectively poisoned the well for negative news.

As a casual observer I can't tell what's actual bad news and what's well-orchestrated market-manipulation "OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE" by people trying to drop the price, and I don't actually care enough about the company to put in the effort to find out.

Kind of depressing, really.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#36

Post by wyldfire »

sophistication wrote: post #16

I'm not losing optimism because of this. Musk fits right into the current political & cultural trajectory and the Tesla brand is sleek & timeless. The media is framing Musk's flaws (Twitter insults, weed & booze) as a bad thing, but outside of the media, people do not care about such things nearly as much. It just requires a few years of optimization and the cars are going to be en par with established brands.

Musk is truly visionary. But that doesn't dictate success.

> It just requires a few years of optimization and the cars are going to be en par with established brands.

The world is littered with visionary companies that paved the way for new technology but ultimately failed themselves. "A few years of optimization" gravely undervalues the complexity of modern auto manufacturing. I will concede that it's astonishing that Tesla has come so far, so fast. But perhaps this is time for an inflection point.

> people do not care about such things nearly as much.

You're right that Tesla's customers aren't influenced much by this news in particular. But Tesla's long-term success will be impacted by their capability to attract talent. If Musk drives away all the talented R&D, marketing, finance leaders, he'll be stuck with second-rate talent. It's clear that he has shown that there's a luxury EV market. True, the big players move slowly but won't hesitate to pivot into this space.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#37

Post by emptyfile »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
api wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who bought a Tesla and is now asking for a buy-back. His experience has convinced me the negative hype isn't all just shorts propagandizing and "Musk fatigue." This company has huge, huge problems. When he first got the Tesla it had huge body panel alignment problems. Eventually these were fixed, but it took too long and was difficult to get Tesla to fully acknowledge them. After that he had a range o…

> After that he had a range of little annoying problems, many of which were likely software bugs, but then he (actually his GF) experienced something in autopilot mode known on the Tesla forums as "shadow braking" -- the car braking hard on the highway because it seems to see the shadow of an overpass and think it's a wall. This is extremely dangerous. It was on the I-405 (SoCal) going 70-80mph, and such a thing coul…

Holy shit!!!?!

Potential life threatening maneuvers on the road are a feature of the self-learning Autopilot system???? Because without it the car will just ram itself into a wall???

>With that said, if that causes concern for the driver, the vehicle isn't for them.

What if it causes concern for the driver behind them, what then? My family will get a settlement after a Tesla kills me?

How the fuck are these cars legal anywhere???

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#38

Post by toomuchtodo »

emptyfile wrote: post #37
toomuchtodo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After that he had a range of little annoying problems, many of which were likely software bugs, but then he (actually his GF) experienced something in autopilot mode known on the Tesla forums as "shadow braking" -- the car braking hard on the highway because it seems to see the shadow of an overpass and think it's a wall. This is extremely dangerous. It was on the I-405 (SoCal) going 70-80mph, and such a thing coul…

Holy shit!!!?! Potential life threatening maneuvers on the road are a feature of the self-learning Autopilot system???? Because without it the car will just ram itself into a wall??? >With that said, if that causes concern for the driver, the vehicle isn't for them. What if it causes concern for the driver behind them, what then? My family will get a settlement after a Tesla kills me? How the fuck are these cars lega…

The driver behind a vehicle is primarily responsible for any rear end collision (US-specific, YMMV elsewhere). Should probably not tailgate a Tesla (or tailgate in general).

> How the fuck are these cars legal anywhere???

They're legal because Autopilot is driver assistance. The driver is still 100% responsible, just as they would be for cruise control.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#39

Post by api »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
api wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who bought a Tesla and is now asking for a buy-back. His experience has convinced me the negative hype isn't all just shorts propagandizing and "Musk fatigue." This company has huge, huge problems. When he first got the Tesla it had huge body panel alignment problems. Eventually these were fixed, but it took too long and was difficult to get Tesla to fully acknowledge them. After that he had a range o…

> After that he had a range of little annoying problems, many of which were likely software bugs, but then he (actually his GF) experienced something in autopilot mode known on the Tesla forums as "shadow braking" -- the car braking hard on the highway because it seems to see the shadow of an overpass and think it's a wall. This is extremely dangerous. It was on the I-405 (SoCal) going 70-80mph, and such a thing coul…

Hard braking at 80mph isn't as dangerous as not seeing a tractor trailer, but it could definitely cause a serious accident.

I'm starting to understand why all the other self-drive companies use active sensors like lidar. You need that to compensate for the fact that the AI actually driving the car is less intelligent than a honeybee.

A self-drive "AI" is dumb. It's just a glorified expert system with a lot of pattern recognition and other stuff bolted on. But the performance of dumb things can sometimes be improved by giving them more information. Self-driving cars need super-human senses.

Lidar is doubly special because its an active sensing system. If the car hits an undecidable edge case it can probe it to see if it's physical or a lighting artifact. It needs to be able to do this because it has no higher order conceptual model of the world to reference. It doesn't "know" what an overpass or the sun "are."

Edit: This principle is also why "big data" has helped revive "AI." We need big data because our AI isn't very I. Biological intelligences do incredible things with very small amounts of data because they have more I. What's so impressive about biology is what it can do with small data.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#40

Post by Nokinside »

If Tesla needs more money, investors will use that as a leverage to get the Elon Musk problem addressed.

It would be good for everyone if there is intervention that corrects the problem and Musk could continue. Investors can demand to have someone who can veto his craziest decisions and publicity or they can force him out. Musk has structured the board so that nobody has power over him. He must know that if asks more money that changes.

Musk seems to be highly functioning bipolar (he thinks so himself). It's probably mild form of bipolar disorder called cyclothymic disorder or something similar. People with cyclothymia are at increased risk of developing full-blown bipolar disorder over time.

The problem is that that his mental issues may get out of hand during stressful situations. Musk has been showing signs of slipping from hypomania to full mania for the last year: little sleep, endless energy, lowered inhibitions, erratic quick decisions and unnecessary confrontations. If he publicly calls people he has never met pedophiles, I just can't imagine how bad the situation is with the people who have to deal with him every day.

Musk has already achieved so much. It would be shame if it all ends in tragedy.

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