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Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

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Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#231

Post by cliffordthedog »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #107
api wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been an overall bad experience. Here's a rough chronology: (1) Serious and clearly visible body panel alignment issues. They got fixed, but it took a while and Tesla didn't have a loaner car. There was also a scratch on the car when it was delivered. (2) Door handles not extending. This problem occurred multiple times. The first "fix" was to reboot the computer. (3) A whole host of software bugs including consta…

Given that Tesla owners are the most satisfied (cf. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/12/21/tesla-po... ), that implies that the other owners are even more happy with their Tesla that I would have expected. All surveys about panel gaps points to Tesla being above average (expect in the first few cars out of the line, which are generally owned by employees). If your friends' Tesla has serious software bug,…

Really, the biggest group of cult-like fanboys around claim to be satisfied with their purchase from someone they perceive as the saviour of humanity?

I'm shocked.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#232

Post by seebee »

Retric wrote: post #187
scottkduncan wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with Jacques M on solar, and would also add that much of the battery tech is Panasonic's and self-driving is a long ways away from being road-ready.

In terms of cash flow I agree. But, if you had a company that just did self driving and had as many cars on the road as Tesla does people would value it. Likewise for a giant battery factory, or a company putting out those solar shingles even with just a handful of installs. Now suppose they sell those lines of business off to some other company to free up some capital. It's a path through the cash crunch that may ca…

How are they going to sell the battery factory when it's owned by Panasonic, not Tesla?

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#233

Post by steve_adams_86 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #165
bob_theslob646 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just watched a part of the Joe Rogan podcast with Musk and I have to say he looks very unhealthy. What does that even mean? can you use your words to describe what you mean by unhealthy? were you able to see his blood pressure through the tint in his skin? Your comment is spam especially when everyone knows the hours that he works.

"What does that even mean? can you use your words to describe what you mean by unhealthy" His skin looks grayish, he looks tired. Don't you ever see people and think "he/she doesn't look good"? It's very possible that I am wrong but he looks like somebody who should take a vacation to heal and get some clarity back. The fact that he is picking fights with cave divers while his company is in serious trouble shows to m…

That's what Elon looks like.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#234

Post by jklein11 »

gbear605 wrote: post #58
jklein11 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. A million times this. When a Tesla was $100,000 it was a status symbol. Seeing one on the road was cool and novel, like seeing a Maserati. Flooding the streets with Tesla is hurting that brand and causing the company to burn cash.

You’re in the SF bubble, my friend.

I don't live anywhere near SF although I do live on the North East Coast of USA so I suppose I am subject to the bias you are talking about.

Tesla mass producing their cars has been a massive headache for them. I think it would have benefited shareholders if they had stuck to the niche of luxury vehicles that they were demonstrating success in.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#235

Post by seebee »

dmode wrote: post #143
chollida1 wrote: post #3

And their Chief People Officer, is not coming back from her leave. From the outside it looks like Telsa is about going to go into a tough winter like moment. They are almost losing by winning. They are at capacity in their Fremont factory but still not making a profit. They need to start designing and building out manufacturing facilities for their next car and the help bolster Model X manufacturing. Stop and think f…

Tesla's liquidity issues are completely overblown. Nevermind that their cashflow and spend numbers are improving. People also tend to overlook the amount of investor liquidity we have in the market. SoftBank has a $100bn fund. Saudi's have a $1 trillion sovereign wealth fund. I believe the UAE have something similar as well. Raising a couple billion dollars in this environment would be extremely easy. Especially when…

Tesla automotive does not have a 20% margin, it's much closer to 10%. In the '18-H letter they claimed 20% margins including ZEV/GHG credits and added back Services & Other (in all Tesla 10-Q's the Services & Other are subtracted). Tesla calculates gross margin by not only including the ZEV/GHG credits but by basing the margin on the retail price of the vehicle rather than the bulk invoice. Cost of stores and R&D expense are also omitted from the gross margin.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#236

Post by sowbug »

emptyfile wrote: post #106
sowbug wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in a car is life-threatening.

Which is why there are so many laws and regulations surrounding them, the most basic of which is a technical inspection every few years. If your brakes don't work your car is illegal on the road (at least here in Europe). But apparently if its a software bug in the brakes then its okay to drive it around...

The number of question marks and exclamation points in your original post does not fit the relative severity of the issue you are describing. If you used that many question marks to describe a car with an imperfect auto-braking system, I can't imagine how many you'd use to describe a car with a human braking system. In the U.S., those humans fail to brake, with consequences, 2.5 million times a year. https://www.scmitchell.com/blog/2017/may/rear-end-collisions...

Even when self-driving cars become popular, people will still be injured and die in them. And it won't be just a subset of the people who would have died without such cars. It will almost certainly be a different, randomly selected group of people. If it's your time to go, does it matter to you whether you died because a texting teenager slammed into your stopped car? Or because an edge case triggered in a car's software? The former case is just stupid. The latter case is something society can learn from and prevent from ever happening again.

If you are in favor of more people dying in "normal" accidents, then by all means, please continue expressing your outrage.

The cost of progress in this area is computers making mistakes instead of people making them.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#237

Post by scottkduncan »

smolder wrote: post #215
scottkduncan wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Shorts" didn't cause the CEO to invent a $420/share offer for the company out of whole cloth, nor did they force him to smoke a blunt on video. The mental gymnastics you have to do not see the red flags here, completely the result of the CEO's actions and mismanagement, is something.

Neither of those things bother me. Being a conformist is not a virtue in a business culture marked by top-heavy bureaucracy, mediocrity, me-too hype chasing, and slow decline. Economists, board members, bankers, c-level execs - the shot callers of the world are much less clever and equipped to lead than they collectively think they are. If you think hitting a joint is a red flag, I wonder what kind. It's just showman…

> Economists, board members, bankers, c-level execs - the shot callers of the world are much less clever and equipped to lead than they collectively think they are.

I completely agree with this, but disagree that Musk is constructively channeling his creativity and nonconformity here. He's trying to pivot from a niche product for tech enthusiasts to a mass market car, with a client base whose first questions will be about the car's reliability, not how quickly it can go 0 - 60. A guy who flies off to Thailand, accuses people of being pedophiles, curses out journalists, and yes, smokes a huge blunt during an interview, does not inspire confidence to most people at a time when his company is hemorrhaging cash, straining to meet production goals, slashing investments in the future, and losing senior execs left and right.

If Tesla was humming along it'd be one thing to have more of this edge, but to me this looks like a slow motion breakdown prompted by deep problems at his company.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#238

Post by timellis-smith »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #112
Filligree wrote: post #4

A while ago I considered reserving a model 3, but I eventually decided against it. Feel like I dodged a bullet, there. There was a time where Tesla had a genuine advantage over the incumbents, but it never was enough of an advantage to overcome their lack of experience. That's only obvious in retrospect, I suppose.

Can you cite one source that indicates that Model 3 owners are somehow dissatisfied? All reviews (by the general public and by journalists) say the car performance, quality and experience is excellent and above Mercedes / BMW's. Have you driven one?

https://www.businessinsider.com/survey-uk-drivers-say-tesla-...

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#239

Post by slededit »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
api wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who bought a Tesla and is now asking for a buy-back. His experience has convinced me the negative hype isn't all just shorts propagandizing and "Musk fatigue." This company has huge, huge problems. When he first got the Tesla it had huge body panel alignment problems. Eventually these were fixed, but it took too long and was difficult to get Tesla to fully acknowledge them. After that he had a range o…

> After that he had a range of little annoying problems, many of which were likely software bugs, but then he (actually his GF) experienced something in autopilot mode known on the Tesla forums as "shadow braking" -- the car braking hard on the highway because it seems to see the shadow of an overpass and think it's a wall. This is extremely dangerous. It was on the I-405 (SoCal) going 70-80mph, and such a thing coul…

As someone who may be behind a auto-brake slamming Tesla one day, where is my opt-out from this dangerous beta?

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#240

Post by ggm »

sjg007 wrote: post #154
api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LIDAR is not necessarily categorically mandatory, but shadow braking and other autopilot failure modes demonstrate that it or something with its capabilities are probably necessary right now to enable today's "AI" to safely drive a car. My point about active sensing being able to decide edge cases explains why this is likely the case. IMHO doing without precise active sensing would require a breakthrough in AI that h…

Seems weird that the Tesla can't infer that there is no wall there from GPS data.

What if a wall is there tomorrow?
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