Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#161

Post by jeff_friesen » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:16 PM UTC

0vermorrow wrote: post #51

spiderfarmer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they should fire him, but he should most definately do the un-american thing: work a sane amount of hours and go on vacation every now and then.

I completely agree with this. I feel him taking some time off and easing off would benefit everybody. He is known for his super focused and driven way of work, and as he himself said: “If other people are putting in 40 hour workweeks and you’re putting in 100 hour workweeks, then even if you’re doing the same thing … you will achieve in four months what it takes them a year to achieve.” But he is only human, not a ro…

I am definitely happier after listening to Cal Newport's book "Deep Work" and implementing some of the strategies. I get so much more done so then I don't feel as much pressure to keep working until late at night (even though I have an infinite amount of work to do).

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#162

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

emptyfile wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit!!!?! Potential life threatening maneuvers on the road are a feature of the self-learning Autopilot system???? Because without it the car will just ram itself into a wall??? >With that said, if that causes concern for the driver, the vehicle isn't for them. What if it causes concern for the driver behind them, what then? My family will get a settlement after a Tesla kills me? How the fuck are these cars lega…

The driver behind a vehicle is primarily responsible for any rear end collision (US-specific, YMMV elsewhere). Should probably not tailgate a Tesla (or tailgate in general). > How the fuck are these cars legal anywhere??? They're legal because Autopilot is driver assistance. The driver is still 100% responsible, just as they would be for cruise control.

> The driver behind a vehicle is primarily responsible for any rear end collision (US-specific, YMMV elsewhere).

Not if you slam on the brakes without cause on the highway.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#163

Post by scottkduncan » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #69

scottkduncan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wall Street" is not betting on them to go bankrupt. Collectively, investors value this company that produces, at best, 7K cars a week at $45 billion. The idea that one quarter of profitability achieved through slashing capex to the bone fundamentally would fundamentally change their valuation doesn't carry much water in my view.

Tesla is more than just a car manufacture. I doubt self driving + solar + battery + charging network etc is worth the kind premium they have over just being a car company. But, analysis based strictly on car sales a mistake, especially as established car companies outsource so much parts production.

Agree with Jacques M on solar, and would also add that much of the battery tech is Panasonic's and self-driving is a long ways away from being road-ready.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#164

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #162

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The driver behind a vehicle is primarily responsible for any rear end collision (US-specific, YMMV elsewhere). Should probably not tailgate a Tesla (or tailgate in general). > How the fuck are these cars legal anywhere??? They're legal because Autopilot is driver assistance. The driver is still 100% responsible, just as they would be for cruise control.

> The driver behind a vehicle is primarily responsible for any rear end collision (US-specific, YMMV elsewhere). Not if you slam on the brakes without cause on the highway.

Here is the general state statute you're up against (as the person rear ending someone on the interstate):

“Any person driving a vehicle on a highway shall drive the same at a careful and prudent speed not greater than nor less than is reasonable and proper, having due regard to the traffic, surface and width of the highway and any other conditions then existing, and no person shall drive any vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than will permit the driver to bring it to a stop within the assured clear distance ahead.”

Maybe if you have a dash cam. Maybe if you can prove there was nothing in front of the person in front of you. Lot of maybes.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#165

Post by maxxxxx » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #147

maxxxxx wrote: post #62

I just watched a part of the Joe Rogan podcast with Musk and I have to say he looks very unhealthy. Maybe I am wrong but to me he looks like he is drinking a lot or on some other drugs. I can imagine working with a CEO who is pushing himself way other the limit is a pretty unpleasant experience.

>I just watched a part of the Joe Rogan podcast with Musk and I have to say he looks very unhealthy. What does that even mean? can you use your words to describe what you mean by unhealthy? were you able to see his blood pressure through the tint in his skin? Your comment is spam especially when everyone knows the hours that he works.

"What does that even mean? can you use your words to describe what you mean by unhealthy"

His skin looks grayish, he looks tired. Don't you ever see people and think "he/she doesn't look good"?

It's very possible that I am wrong but he looks like somebody who should take a vacation to heal and get some clarity back. The fact that he is picking fights with cave divers while his company is in serious trouble shows to me that he is not thinking clearly and doesn't have his priorities straight. If I worked overtime to meet deadlines at Tesla I would be very concerned if my CEO didn't focus 100% on the company.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#166

Post by dragontamer » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #157

dmode wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's liquidity issues are completely overblown. Nevermind that their cashflow and spend numbers are improving. People also tend to overlook the amount of investor liquidity we have in the market. SoftBank has a $100bn fund. Saudi's have a $1 trillion sovereign wealth fund. I believe the UAE have something similar as well. Raising a couple billion dollars in this environment would be extremely easy. Especially when…

The complaint isn't that Tesla faces challenges in raising money, but that Tesla is delusional in believing that it doesn't need to raise money.

Yeah, but Musk always said that he won't raise money, but does so anyway.

I bet you Musk does another stock offering by the end of the year. Its kind of a yearly-tradition at this point, with exception of 2014 when Musk decided to raise a few billion in bonds instead.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#167

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #125

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize how much FUD is disseminated daily in the mainstream media. Take this Reuters article for instance, which has been published and translated by dozens of top newspapers: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-germany-daimler/ele... 3rd paragraph: "The market for upscale electric cars is Tesla’s to lose, with sales of its entry-level Model 3 sedan expected to reach about 50,000 cars this yea…

Ford makes 50-90k F-150's a month without the drama. There is no universe where Tesla will be manufacturing 25,000 (300k/12) $40-50k cars per month. BMW alone sells something like 9,000 3-series vehicles in that price range per month. It's not credible that Tesla, with a limited sales network, limited charging infrastructure, high costs and long backlog is going to magically take away double digit percentages of the…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#168

Post by dragontamer » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

scottkduncan wrote: post #47

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management said they don't need to raise funds to cover the capex needed to ramp up Model 3 sales to 7/week, which is (as confirmed multiple times by Musk) more than needed to turn a profit. They just need to turn a profit in Q3 to get the stock price back up and then, they might raise funds to finance the next products (Model Y, truck and Semi). Why raise funds when Wall Street bet on the company to go bankrupt? Rai…

"Wall Street" is not betting on them to go bankrupt. Collectively, investors value this company that produces, at best, 7K cars a week at $45 billion. The idea that one quarter of profitability achieved through slashing capex to the bone fundamentally would fundamentally change their valuation doesn't carry much water in my view.

> "Wall Street" is not betting on them to go bankrupt.

27.88% of all shares in existence are short-sold. Its one of the biggest shorts on the market at the moment.

Wall Street is CERTAINLY betting that they're going down.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#169

Post by mbreese » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #107

api wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been an overall bad experience. Here's a rough chronology: (1) Serious and clearly visible body panel alignment issues. They got fixed, but it took a while and Tesla didn't have a loaner car. There was also a scratch on the car when it was delivered. (2) Door handles not extending. This problem occurred multiple times. The first "fix" was to reboot the computer. (3) A whole host of software bugs including consta…

Given that Tesla owners are the most satisfied (cf. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/12/21/tesla-po... ), that implies that the other owners are even more happy with their Tesla that I would have expected. All surveys about panel gaps points to Tesla being above average (expect in the first few cars out of the line, which are generally owned by employees). If your friends' Tesla has serious software bug,…

Most of this you’re arguing against someone’s subjective opinions, which makes no sense. They are unhappy with the car and service and are taking advantage of a program to return the car. This is how it’s supposed to work. The customer has less bad will against the company and gets out of a car they don’t like. And other potential customers can see that there is less risk for them is they don’t like their new Tesla.

But this part...

Unless he can't stand a small bug in an optional, beta feature.

That’s not okay. Shadow braking is not a small bug. It’s a dangerous thing that can happen. Calling something “beta” doesn’t work when you’re driving down the road at 70 MPH. That’s just plain dangerous. Putting something like that out into the public as a “beta” feature puts not only the customer but everyone else on the road in danger.

I have no problem with a company testing car features on the road with test drivers who are well trained (with well marked cars). But “beta” doesn’t belong on the highway in the hands of a customer.

Re: Tesla Accounting Chief, HR Head Resign on the Same Day; Stock Plunges

#170

Post by fragmede » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

OscarCunningham wrote: post #42

api wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who bought a Tesla and is now asking for a buy-back. His experience has convinced me the negative hype isn't all just shorts propagandizing and "Musk fatigue." This company has huge, huge problems. When he first got the Tesla it had huge body panel alignment problems. Eventually these were fixed, but it took too long and was difficult to get Tesla to fully acknowledge them. After that he had a range o…

Sorry to take things off-topic but >Needless to say we will not be uploading consciousness anytime soon I'd say that uploading consciousness is an entirely orthogonal problem to AI. Uploading a consciousness is all about scanning the brain and simulating it accurately. It doesn't involve any AI since the intelligence already exists. Conversely if you succeeded with uploading it wouldn't necessarily help with AI, sinc…

Where do you upload it to? What hardware? How much RAM? What's the CPU's clockspeed? Bus speed? Those are the right questions to ask when researching a new electronic gadget's capabilities, but I'm sure those are the wrong questions to ask if presented with hardware that could hold consciousness. Humanity understands so very little about consciousness, that, were we able to simulate it under the umbrella of AI, it would still advance the pre-natal field of uploaded digital consciousness.

I can think of specific exceptions, especially using a very strict definition of the field of AI research, that says that the fields are separate, but until we've succeeded at both, it's impossible to say what was actually necessary in order to get there.