Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

621–630 of 728 posts

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#621

Post by PunchTornado »

wellWisherToday wrote: post #609
PunchTornado wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nobody right wing at facebook supports discrimination/intolerance against other people. Nobody says there, on that page, KKK quotes or preaches nazism. Being ring wing doesn't mean you're intolerant: - no general free healthcare, only private for people that work - lower taxes for everyone - no gender or racial quotas in hiring or entry at university (against positive discrimination) - no free trade agreements with o…

I agree with you. All the examples you gave should be seen as different opinion and a person should be able to have that and work peacefully. However if someone says that certain people are more capable because of their gender will you call it discriminatory? (I would think it is).

of course, because you then look at the gender before hiring someone and that's discrimination.

however, it is not discrimination if someone is against favouring a certain gender in hiring to achieve a gender balanced workforce. that's just his opinion and should be able to say it without repercussions.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#623

Post by ryanmarsh »

ndespres wrote: post #561

The manifesto states "There’s only going to be one core rule in the group, and it’s that if you attack a person’s character, rather than their ideas, you will be banned." People whose ideas are on the wrong side of ethical will often say this sort of thing- as though the two things, a person's character and their ideas, are somehow not connected. I'm not sure where they get the idea that the ideas they support indica…

Purely from an energy conservation perspective, taking character into account when assessing the usefulness of an idea can save you quite a bit of trouble in life.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#624

Post by philwelch »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #610
philwelch wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read Damore’s memo, that’s categorically false, but of course he was smeared as having said that.

Having also read Damore's memo, it's not categorically false. His stance was that women are, on average, more cooperative, more prone to anxiety, and less driven by status than men. He says that those traits explain the gender gap in tech employment because the current tech culture is high stress, requires long hours and hard work, and is highly competitive. In other words, women are (on average) less suited to work…

The overall conclusion, which I seem to recall Damore taking great pains to clarify, is that individual women who happen to be competitive, driven, and resilient to stress can and do thrive in the tech industry, while individual men who lack those traits can and do struggle, but the differing distribution of those traits across the entire population will affect population-level statistics even absent overt discrimination.

Rounding that off to "women are less suited to work in tech" is completely dishonest, because there was never any claim that each and every woman is less suited for the tech industry than a man. A more accurate summary would be, "fewer women are suited to work in tech".

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#625

Post by [deleted] »

jaredklewis wrote: post #510
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

If politics were "playing basketball" or "solving crosswords," I would agree. The problem is that reality and politics share the same space. Alex Jones is a liar and manipulator. He goes on the air and presents theories for which there is not even superficial evidence as news and established fact. I'm not trying to be political, those are just the facts as I see them. Just because I show up at work doesn't mean I bec…

[deleted]

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#626

Post by methodover »

bitcurious wrote: post #304
jeffdavis wrote: post #197

I had never heard of Alex Jones before. It doesn't particularly bother me if a couple companies kick him off their platform. But it was really disturbing that it was a coordinated move by all the major social platforms at once. Wow. It's shocking that they would cooperate with eachother on those decisions. Secondarily, it undermines the idea that they can leave all kinds of bad stuff on their network (libel, etc.) an…

Is there any proof of coordination?

There's not, because there wasn't any.

It's like an angry drunk complaining that all the bars he's banned from are coordinating to ban him. It's like, no, you were an angry drunk separately at all of them.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#627

Post by damnyou »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #311
mwfunk wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing has changed with regard to reasonable people reasonably disagreeing over reasonable differences. The Overton Window has changed for sure, but that's what it does. I struggle to think of any perspective that has moved out of the Overton Window over the past 10 years that I regret losing. If anything the Overton Window has moved backwards in recent years to better accommodate the Alex Joneses of the world, but…

>The Overton Window has changed for sure, but that's what it does. I struggle to think of any perspective that has moved out of the Overton Window over the past 10 years that I regret losing. Honestly, I want the Overton Window to be consistent with what people actually do in real life . I've begun to grow uncomfortable with a political environment in which we all need to hash-tag #AbolishICE, when we all know that t…

* Abolishing ICE doesn't require abolishing the border entirely, just abolishing a police force that gets as much funding as the FBI even though it is dedicated to one small subset of violations.

* It is OK to have ideals that you work towards while knowing that you won't necessarily reach them.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#628

Post by threatofrain »

chrisco255 wrote: post #618
threatofrain wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this understanding of American conservatism not describe effective points for voter galvanization? In other words, it's an operational definition in tune with American voter behavior. One might point to the rallying cry for a US Constitutional ban to gay marriage, during the Bush presidential candidacy. Did that not serve to rally the American conservative base? Is Alex Jones not representative of effective (mea…

No, it didn't. Even Obama said he was anti-gay marriage in 2008.and California, one of the most liberal states, banned gay marriage in 2008 with prop 8: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(20... . Gay marriage divided people on both sides of the aisle. Conservatives were slower to move in favor of it...but that's sort of the definition of conservative (keep things status quo). It wasn't a major…

I view Alex Jones as relevant to the prediction of future elections not because he is vulnerable to criticism of being a "conspiracy theorist shock jock", but simply because of the scale of his influence. That's what makes him far more relevant as a conservative voice than Rush Limbaugh, Bill O Reilly, or Steve Bannon.

And if you're viewing President Trump as an anomaly, then you have to view this whole period as an anomaly, because Trump-like candidates are bluntly replacing low energy Jebs. I remember one recent advertisement where a candidate teased how different they were from Trump with an imaginary childhood rearing situation involving building a wall, and learning language by talking about making America great again.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#629

Post by Veelox »

mcphage wrote: post #328
_8j50 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only say that because it's convenient for you. You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. It really is a two way street and u-turns are allowed.

> You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. So the commenter says that he looks forward to the next generation of developers not experiencing the hate that he has experienced. You say, he’d be unhappy at conservative places, presumably because he’d still experience that hate. So then why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? His goal—hell, it should be all of our goal—…

>So then why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? His goal—hell, it should be all of our goal—is to stamp out places where such hate is encouraged.

How do you think a person who wore a MAGA hat to Google or Facebook would be treated? What about someone who advocates that people who entered the country without permission should be charged with a crime? I think the point being made is that be careful how the minority is treated because one day you might be in the minority. The best way to do that is to keep out politics out of work.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#630

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

sagarm wrote: post #558
philwelch wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only extremists on the left would disagree that sex differences are partially/fully biological (depending on how you're defining biological and sex). Unfortunately, there were enough “extremists” to get both Larry Summers and James Damore fired.

Summers and Damore exercised their first amendment right to free speech. Their employers decided they did not want to deal with the entirely predictable controversy both caused and exercised their first amendment right to freedom of association. Seems like the first amendment is intact to me.

> Summers and Damore exercised their first amendment right to free speech.

Since the government had no part in what happened to them, this is true in a trivial sense. However, it does not support whatever argument you are trying to make.

> ... first amendment right to freedom of association

People like to trot this out as an defense but they forget that freedom of association is not unlimited precisely because of its use in the past for discrimination. (Deeply ironic, is it not?) For example, the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Fair Housing Act of 1968 restrict freedom of association in that they require businesses and landlords / property sellers to serve people in protected classes in a fair manner.

Some states even already offer limited protection from employers who discriminate against political affiliation; see, for example http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection... .

Post reply on HN