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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#191

Post by o0-0o »

austinheap wrote: post #127
fatjokes wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I completely disagree with the whole "bring your whole self to work". No! Bring your professional self to work. The counter-argument is that the causes relate to discrimination in the workforce. I.e., BLM needs to be supported because blacks are underrepresented in the American tech workforce. I disagree these need to be equivalent. It's possible for a company to promote hiring underrepresented minorities…

It's called corporate social responsibility. Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. As a gay dude that grew up in Ohio -- and had people yell "fag" when I got my diploma at graduation -- I'm beyond happy that the next generation of LGBTQ engineers won't grow up with the same level of hate I experienced. The arc of moral justice is only bent when force is applied.

Cry me a river. I am not even gay and people yell fag at me in Bushwick all the time. Time to grow up dude. Sticks and stones...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#192

Post by chrisco255 »

fatjokes wrote: post #105
_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

Absolutely. I completely disagree with the whole "bring your whole self to work". No! Bring your professional self to work. The counter-argument is that the causes relate to discrimination in the workforce. I.e., BLM needs to be supported because blacks are underrepresented in the American tech workforce. I disagree these need to be equivalent. It's possible for a company to promote hiring underrepresented minorities…

I don't agree with this "professional self" thing. I think you should bring your whole self to work...but sure, as with everything that should come in moderation. We all go to work to do a job, after all. But maybe the core problem is that we can't just agree to disagree, on some things. We have gotten to the point, as a society, that if you are right of center (in some circles), you're batshit alt-right crazy. And that's honestly just another form of discrimination.

Why can't you talk about politics at work? We spend most of our waking hours at work. There should be basic ground rules for civility and then people should be free to say what they want, without fear that they'll be fired because they donated to some GOP candidate.

That's tolerance, and honestly, that's America. What the hell happened where everyone's trying to bite each other's heads off all the time?

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#193

Post by adrr »

landryraccoon wrote: post #157
manfredo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. Thiel's and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, if any, of these views don't deserve respect?

I'm genuinely curious what "All lives matter" stands for except for being opposed to the idea that "Black lives matter". There's a key difference here - "Black lives matter" attempts to point out that there is discrimination in law enforcement that seems to single out minorities. Correcting this discrimination would be good. What policy change does "All lives matter" advocate? Do those policy changes indeed benefit "…

All lives matter argument is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard. It's like responding to a "Save the whales" movement, with "all endangered species matter".

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#194

Post by ericdykstra »

austinheap wrote: post #158
ericdykstra wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an employee is harassing or demeaning their coworker based on their beliefs, that's enough grounds to fire an employee. Is there any evidence that promoting "pride" and "lgbt tolerance" makes employees treat each other well in cases where they otherwise wouldn't have?

From Harvard Business Review: "Results from our experiment involving 118 undergraduate students showed that taking the perspective of LGBT individuals or racial minorities — by writing a few sentences imagining the distinct challenges a marginalized minority might face — can improve pro-diversity attitudes and behavioral intentions toward these groups." https://hbr.org/2017/07/two-types-of-diversity-training-that...

A small sample of students taking a survey isn't very convincing evidence.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#195

Post by nostromo »

_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

In general I agree with you, but neither pride nor tolerance training is political.

Pride is like St. Paddy's Day or Chinese New Year: it's neither left or right.

Tolerance training isn't political either. If an employer wants their employees to be comfortable at work, it's within their right to train employees to be tolerant of each other. It has nothing to do with politics.

It's strange how gay people just being gay is often seen as a political act -- but that's never the case for straight people.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#197

Post by jeffdavis »

I had never heard of Alex Jones before. It doesn't particularly bother me if a couple companies kick him off their platform.

But it was really disturbing that it was a coordinated move by all the major social platforms at once. Wow. It's shocking that they would cooperate with eachother on those decisions.

Secondarily, it undermines the idea that they can leave all kinds of bad stuff on their network (libel, etc.) and pretend like they aren't the publisher. They really want to have it both ways.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#198

Post by spookthesunset »

_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

> When at work respect your colleagues,not because of their politics and beliefs but because 1) they're human 2) you would want to be respected if you were in their shoes 3) out of respect for your own self

You cannot escape politics no matter the environment. Your personal political views are a reflection of your core values, ethics and morals. I'd much rather have companies take a stand than try to appease everybody. If anything, it would let me know which businesses should get my money and which I should avoid (as well as which I'd work for and which I'd avoid).

> Imagine not being able to work in tech because how you vote,pray or who you associate with becomes inconvenient to the industry.

That is a slippery slope. Certain political viewpoints should be shunned and outcast from polite society...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#199

Post by happytoexplain »

_mhyx wrote: post #87

The comments in this thread are shocking, Inquisition level stuff. I can't believe I spend time here. Remember when HN was tech stuff? Now it's: manfredo 16 minutes ago The following views were listed on the memo: * Support of President Trump (e.g. This and Palmer Lucky's campaign contributions) * "All lives matter" * Criticism of Islam's human rights record. * Calling the company's art politically radical . Which, i…

I can see a possibility where manfredo's perspective is genuinely naive of context surrounding of his first three bullet points, and may not be acting in bad faith - and I can see a possibility where brainkim's real feelings aren't as hard-line as the shortened, perhaps understandably heated version.

To call these comments "inquisition level", and potentially ignorant of the catastrophic history of suppressing dissenting opinions, is a pretty wild attack based on what they said. Your hyperbole seems far more damaging and dismissive than their comments.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#200

Post by ianai »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #161
taurath wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, in terms of some social policies. We've gone from it being a left leaning thing to not support assaulting out LGBT people to tacit mainstream support of the idea of having equal rights. In terms of economics and power, the rich have gotten richer, the republicans have gotten ruthlessly more fundamentalist. Reagan raised taxes. Nixon proposed universal healthcare. Obamacare/Romneycare was originally a He…

We’ve actually moved from a society that was openly intolerant of liberal values, to one that is openly intolerant of conservative ones. Neither of those scenarios are better, it’s just putting the shoe on the other foot. When I was a kid I had to worry about some coalition of Christians or moms petitioning congress to prevent me from listening to rage against the machine. Now I have to worry about a mob of liberals…

Please, there’s a government literally ordering people to prop up alt-right viewpoints. Anecdotally, anytime I voice any criticism IRL and online of anything alt-right I’m immediately refuted forcefully and/or downvoted. My OP probably has more negatives than yours.
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