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For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

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Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#101

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

sofon wrote: post #18
tinco wrote: post #17

Resigning seems hard, but it's a little bit like giving regular feedback in my opinion. First of all it's best done face to face, because you don't want to be misunderstood, and you want to give the other party a fair chance at replying. Second, you give the compliment sandwich. You start out with thanking them for the opportunity (any job is an opportunity, no matter how shitty it was, you made money and you learned…

I think like most "weird Japan" articles this one is being mischaracterised somewhat. It is often somewhat difficult in Japan to get your legal entitlement when leaving a so called "black" company. They might not easily pay out your remaining holiday, or they might use "power harassment" to otherwise make your exit process difficult. So I can see that a company like this, while not providing legal services, removes t…

So, this is more akin to paying a lawyer to author a letter for you in order to persuade another party to take the legally correct course of action.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#102

Post by [deleted] »

gowld wrote: post #77
lovich wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how the companies don't extend that courtesy to employees. When they're done with you, you're walked out the door. Sure, you should tell them you've quit and not ghost them, but why go to any extra lengths like a two weeks notice when they wouldnt do the same for you?

Which companies don't extend that courtesy? Any company I've worked at gives 1-3months notice for low performers. They call it a "Performance Improvement Plan" or somesuch, and basically pay you while you search for another job. For layoffs, there's a severance payment equivalent to several weeks. No salaried job at a going concern would skip severance, because severance is on condition of promising not to sue the co…

[deleted]

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#103

Post by komali2 »

john_moscow wrote: post #91
rlander wrote: post #76

It has to go both ways, though. At my last job, when I first talked to the CTO (my boss) about leaving, he asked me to think about it and talk again the next day. The next day he postponed the meeting. Then, at the day of the meeting, he was out of the office. It had been 5 days since the first talk so I chose to escalate the matter and, in an Arrested-Development-episode kind of situation, I learned that the CEO and…

I'm curious what would have happened, had you also taken a sick vacation then. BTW, generally, people are less likely to pull off shit like that if you motivate your resignation with some health/moving/whatever external factors. Just shift the focus way from "I don't want to work with you assholes" to "my wife got reassigned to %STATENAME%, so I guess I have to follow" or whatever sounds plausible and you're good to…

Awkward when you bump into them at the local bar a couple months down the line though :P

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#104

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

john_moscow wrote: post #91
rlander wrote: post #76

It has to go both ways, though. At my last job, when I first talked to the CTO (my boss) about leaving, he asked me to think about it and talk again the next day. The next day he postponed the meeting. Then, at the day of the meeting, he was out of the office. It had been 5 days since the first talk so I chose to escalate the matter and, in an Arrested-Development-episode kind of situation, I learned that the CEO and…

I'm curious what would have happened, had you also taken a sick vacation then. BTW, generally, people are less likely to pull off shit like that if you motivate your resignation with some health/moving/whatever external factors. Just shift the focus way from "I don't want to work with you assholes" to "my wife got reassigned to %STATENAME%, so I guess I have to follow" or whatever sounds plausible and you're good to…

My best quit excuse was that I had Crohn's disease. It let me step away immediately, because I didn't want to poop myself in the office.

I also offered to work from home for my final two weeks, to help them train my replacement, but it had to be from home, because of the pooping issue.

What's really nice is that I had a ton of options. I could even apply to have my job back, if I couldn't find remote work, in a few months if I had success with the treatment and felt more comfortable in an office environment.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#105

Post by komali2 »

Nadya wrote: post #95
twblalock wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont see why it’s sad. They figured out that being nice to people, even when they don’t feel like being nice, makes society run better.

It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are…

Adding to the other comment on suicide, I point one big fat finger at dangerous work hours, from age 5 on.

Suicide becomes a pretty attractive option when your brain isn't working from lack of sleep, and all you're looking forward to is a lifetime of 80-100 hour work weeks.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#106

Post by Nadya »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #100
Nadya wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are…

Regarding suicide, I blame relatively poor mental healthcare, rigid societal expectations of people's lives (family & career track), and a (supposed) history of suicide as a solution. Or maybe in the West, with cultural roots in Christianity, which strongly discourages suicide, we might just be benefiting from more social taboo around it.

Oh, I'm not saying it's the "only" reason - but a contributing factor. Constant high expectations, the poor work/life balance, and that losing your job after you're 30 basically means you're now considered unemployable doesn't help either.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#107

Post by jonawesomegreen »

groby_b wrote: post #94
jonawesomegreen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, you give the compliment sandwich. I've heard this called the shit sandwich . Good news, bad news, good news. Helps to break unpleasant news in all kinds of situations.

It's an incredibly patronizing way to give feedback: "Hey, you'd never be able to handle criticism on its own, let me window dress it for you. I assume you'll be stupid enough to never notice" There are plenty of ways to deliver negative feedback with empathy, in a non-hurtful way. This, however, isn't one of them.

I disagree. Using a shit sandwich is a way to show empathy in a conversation and have your words heard by the other party.

Contrast: I think the functionality of the application is very useful. The UI is really lacking, especially when doing X, Y and Z. I really like the Q feature it would save me some time.

With: The UI sucks.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#108

Post by chrisco255 »

gknoy wrote: post #84
lovich wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how the companies don't extend that courtesy to employees. When they're done with you, you're walked out the door. Sure, you should tell them you've quit and not ghost them, but why go to any extra lengths like a two weeks notice when they wouldnt do the same for you?

I've been at multiple companies where people get zero minutes notice of a layoff -- "Hey, come meet with me -- btw IT just took your machine." Despite that, the team I worked with were people I was close to, whose skill and wisdom I respect. It was as a courtesy to my _manager_ (and my team) that I gave N>=2 weeks notice. After all, every single one of these people are people I would love to work with again, and I'd…

I've seen every kind of way a company handles a firing or layoff, good, bad, everything in between. Doesn't matter. That's not you. What kind of impression and what kind of legacy do you want to leave? It costs you nothing to be the bigger person in any case. But hopefully, you leave a toxic company long before they do this kind of thing to you.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#109

Post by groby_b »

jonawesomegreen wrote: post #107
groby_b wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an incredibly patronizing way to give feedback: "Hey, you'd never be able to handle criticism on its own, let me window dress it for you. I assume you'll be stupid enough to never notice" There are plenty of ways to deliver negative feedback with empathy, in a non-hurtful way. This, however, isn't one of them.

I disagree. Using a shit sandwich is a way to show empathy in a conversation and have your words heard by the other party. Contrast: I think the functionality of the application is very useful. The UI is really lacking, especially when doing X, Y and Z. I really like the Q feature it would save me some time. With: The UI sucks.

Remember the part where I said "with empathy, in a non-hurtful way"?

"The UI sucks" is not that. Neither is the shit sandwich - it tells me that there are issues with XYZ, but it's buried in unrelated information. Are you saying that the app is helpful? That you want Q? Or that you want XYZ fixed? And if you want XYZ fixed, why are you burying it?

"Hey, we have a couple of issues with XYZ. I know, you're currently looking at something else, but if we don't fix them, we'll cause problems for $USER_GROUP". Clear communication of the problem, that you're aware of the impact it has on the person, and why it's important to address the problem.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#110

Post by _x5tx »

rlander wrote: post #76

It has to go both ways, though. At my last job, when I first talked to the CTO (my boss) about leaving, he asked me to think about it and talk again the next day. The next day he postponed the meeting. Then, at the day of the meeting, he was out of the office. It had been 5 days since the first talk so I chose to escalate the matter and, in an Arrested-Development-episode kind of situation, I learned that the CEO and…

How did you manage to leave?
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