Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 391 posts

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#271

Post by yladiz »

_fbpt wrote: post #220
TylerE wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers tests in the US are a joke.

That you think it's easy to pass drivers tests in the US is a joke.

It actually is a joke how bad some tests are. In a lot of cities in Florida your test is done in a parking lot with no real world driving with other cars, and it omits a lot of things, like parallel parking. Ideally licenses should be able to be transferred across states, but tests like the majority of ones in Florida mean drivers from there may be inadequately prepared for driving in some other states like CA.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#272

Post by Freak_NL »

elboru wrote: post #139
GijsjanB wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amsterdam is one of the worst cities to bike in (on a Dutch scale). It only get's better in other cities!

I didn’t know that, I’ve only been to Amsterdam, what is different in other cities?

Less tourists, but also significantly more well-behaved cyclists. Amsterdam is notorious for cyclists and pedestrians alike ignoring traffic lights and road rules. Amsterdam is the exception rather than the rule.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#273

Post by BlackFly »

analog31 wrote: post #200
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

>>> As a dutch person I would absolutely NOT want to ride a bike in the US, it's simply too dangerous. A lot of Americans also think it's too dangerous. It's an obstacle to getting more people on bikes. When people at my workplace see me with my bike, or find out that I'm a cyclist, they beg me to be careful, promise to wear a helmet, and so forth. I have friends who are avid cyclists, but who limit their riding to d…

> The Dutch seem so carefree.

I think the helmets are a big part of this.

If you go around telling people, "Body armor required," then they are not going to feel laissez-faire.

The other side is the presumed liability on the part of the car. Cars have almost all the responsibility to ensure they do not collide with a bike in the Netherlands. That makes cycling more pedestrian, you can just go and overall not worry about things around you.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#274

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ams6110 wrote: post #143
Symbiote wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have loved that kind of independence at age 12, but with the fear of traffic, paedophiles, kidnappers and whatever, I wasn't even allowed to walk to the end of the road unsupervised.

That's too bad. When I was 12 (late 1970s, Midwest US) I rode my bike all over the place. No mobile phone either. I'm sure there were as many pedophiles and kidnappers then as now, but I never encountered any. I think the risk of a totally random stranger doing anything is very overblown. And traffic was certainly less aware of bikes. You learned to pay attention to cars.

There's been a few high profile cases of e.g. the van luring kids with puppies or the abduction and rape from the street, but those are edge cases - most cases of pedophiles are from e.g. teachers and family. People you trust and drop your guard around. Not "stranger danger".

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#275

Post by Cthulhu_ »

nomercy400 wrote: post #242
phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

Being in the way is also very rare. You'd be amazed how we can cycle around you without you even feeling bothered. Ringing your bell is rare and mostly used to notify other cyclists. The best way to be in traffic is to not stand out. Whether it is car, cyclist or pedestrian. Just don't bother other people.

> Ringing your bell is rare and mostly used to notify other cyclists.

And tourists, who wander onto the bike lanes without realizing it. Mind you there's a lot of cramped and busy areas where it's far too easy to do so.

If you visit Amsterdam, look at the ground, stay off the red pavement unless you intend to cross it, in which case you look both ways and do a firm walk across it.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#276

Post by nothrabannosir »

gambiting wrote: post #264
joncrocks wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries in Europe (certainly in the UK, and other places I have visited), pedestrians have a separate crossing phase to the rest of traffic. The US is unusual in expecting pedestrians to cross while traffic is also trying to negotiate an intersection.

In some EU countries(Poland) pedestrians have a green light to go, even though cars turning right also have a green light - cars are expected to watch out for pedestrians crossing, even when they have a green light to go. I live in UK and the part of the traffic codex that seems to be unknown to literally all British drivers is the one that says "pedestrians have priority over cars making a turn" - so if you are cros…

> part of the traffic codex that seems to be unknown to literally all British drivers is the one that says "pedestrians have priority over cars making a turn"

They have a very efficient system for reminding fellow road users, though. Two fingers in the air slightly apart, a pedestrian’s walking legs upside down, indicating the priority reversal.

People are generally very receptive to this, because it is quintessentially British to understand you have to live together harmoniously to get ahead in life.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#277

Post by skookumchuck »

twoWhlsGud wrote: post #202
skookumchuck wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Seattle, too. They look like they took a wrong turn at the Tour de France.

What part of Seattle are you talking about? During commute periods I see mostly people wearing "normal" clothing (well, normal for Seattle, anyway...) on bikes. Folks kitted up are usually out biking on the weekends.

I see a "normal" biker about only 1 out of 10 or so. The rest are wearing spandex racing outfits.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#278

Post by teddyh »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #276
gambiting wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some EU countries(Poland) pedestrians have a green light to go, even though cars turning right also have a green light - cars are expected to watch out for pedestrians crossing, even when they have a green light to go. I live in UK and the part of the traffic codex that seems to be unknown to literally all British drivers is the one that says "pedestrians have priority over cars making a turn" - so if you are cros…

> part of the traffic codex that seems to be unknown to literally all British drivers is the one that says "pedestrians have priority over cars making a turn" They have a very efficient system for reminding fellow road users, though. Two fingers in the air slightly apart, a pedestrian’s walking legs upside down, indicating the priority reversal. People are generally very receptive to this, because it is quintessentia…

Please don’t spread dangerous misinformation, even as a joke.

Note to non-UK-residents: The described gesture is, in fact, a very rude insulting gesture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign#As_an_insult

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#279

Post by dep_b »

neals wrote: post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

Don’t forget about the rain suit which basically gave you the option to arrive at school wet from your own sweat accumulating inside of it instead of the rain.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#280

Post by belorn »

schlumpf wrote: post #209
bluejekyll wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers often make mistakes here, and especially bicyclists. A lot of cars try to turn from the middle lane, which makes passing on the left more dangerous for cyclists. On top of that, many cyclists attempt to pass on the right, while cars are turning right. You are absolutely correct, but so many people don’t know the rules well enough to even realize they’re breaking them.

Cyclists also willfully break traffic rules in SF with alarming regularity. Stop signs are generally regarded as ornamental, and even lightly traveled red lights. I am reminded of this every time my seven year-old cycling companion asks why such and such a person hasn't followed the rules when they blow past us. Both classes of vehicles have to be diligent.

I have a very simple rule. Traffic laws and enforcement of said laws should be proportional to the accident rate.

If the average car driver has 2x, 10x, 100x or anything like higher accident rate than cyclists, and car traffic is several time larger than bike traffic, then it make logical sense that most traffic law and enforcement is put on addressing car traffic and drivers. The only consideration is when funding for such enforcement and laws don't follow strict scaling, in which you have to find the point where putting more funding in bike traffic laws actually produce lower accidents.

Post reply on HN