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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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111–120 of 391 posts

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#111
Oddly enough I’m in Dordrecht, NL right now on a work trip and it’s bike heaven here. Bike lanes the size of car lanes. Bike depos next to the train station that are a block long. Everywhere you go there’s close to 50 bikes parked outside.

It’s a great place to visit. Lots of nice people and history.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#112
post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

> In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian...

Seems like a pretty biased sample to me. I'm a cyclist, and the vast majority of cyclists I know respect the law and common sense. Yes, there are jerks out there, but they'd most likely still be jerks if they switched to driving.

It's possible that my own sample of cycling friends is biased too, but few cyclists I see on the road are as bad as phil248 described. And the worst drivers I see on the road are considerably more dangerous than the worst cyclists, by a long shot.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#113
post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

That's how you have to ride to survive in car-centric America. You need to assume every car at an intersection has an incentive to hit you and run lights/stop signs to get distance and maintain speed. I'm a pretty normal cyclist most of the time but after several "Pittsburgh left" collisions at intersections I'm fighting for my life.

Strongly disagree. I've heard this argument before. I'm a cyclist and my experience with cyclists who run red lights is that the majority (if not the vast majority) ride so slowly that I can still pass them after they've run a red that I did not run without too much effort. So I doubt that you gain much distance.

Plus, the credibility hit that ALL cyclists take for this alone makes this not worthwhile in my view. Cyclists who respect the law like myself get blamed for the actions of bad cyclists. I've often wondered if this contributes to bad driving around cyclists, e.g., "punishment passes".

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#114
post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

Traffic works quite the same for cars as it does for bikes in that from 8-9 and around 6 you have a huge number of cyclists rushing to and from work, school etc, and it can get pretty crazy. You don't really experience that as a tourist who leaves the hotel around 10 and is walking around for a restaurant around 7. Your experience does exist but it's not always like that.

But there's also a lot of infrastructure to support the mellowness. Dedicated cycling lanes on both sides, priority around traffic lights, under/overpasses to reduce stops, flat roads and dense urban centres (with decent public transportation for larger distances) makes it easy to get to your destination quickly without having to race or compete for space. That certainly helps.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#115
post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

I would have loved that kind of independence at age 12, but with the fear of traffic, paedophiles, kidnappers and whatever, I wasn't even allowed to walk to the end of the road unsupervised.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#117

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

It's cultural, as well. One time a car of people in Houston drove me off the road onto the curb. They screamed out of their window "why you biking out here, you trying to die?"

I was in the bike lane...

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#118
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rotterdam is still very car-centric if you ask me.

Amsterdam is ~1000 years old. Parts of it are very unfriendly to cars simply because they were never built to be accessible. In contrast, Rotterdam was mostly rebuilt after WWII. This gave them the opportunity to make the city more accessible for cars. Still you can get around Rotterdam by metro quite easily, and you are a first class citizen on a bike or on foot. i know lots of people living in Rotterdam who don’t o…

Everytime friends from outside Rotterdam cycle here, I warn them that it's not like te rest of the country. In Amsterdam it's not really frowned uppon if you go through a dormant red trafficlight, I wouldn't recommend that in Rotterdam. A lot of children in Rotterdam (in South) don't grow up with a bike, which is very much in contrast with the article imho. I'm just pointing that out that it's not a total idyllic bike-paradise here imo.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so inaccurate, it's almost laughable. The max speed in sprints during the Tour de France [1] is 43.5mph. Unless you encountered a Tour de France rider, I doubt the cyclist blew through at ~45mph. 1: http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-fra...

If the cyclist had just descended a steep hill, being in the realm of 45mph is not at all unbelievable. I hit 35mph coasting down a very small hill on my commute every day.

Except drag increases quadratically so going 35 -> 45 mph is a much higher increase in energy than the numbers would suggest.

No, I'm going to go with "person who never travels under his own power has no concept of human speeds".

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#120

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

I’ve stopped peaking over my shoulders ever since I’ve gotten a car with a bunch of sensors and cameras. Now it seems like it is more dangerous to take the time to look back and instead just rely on the fairly reliable sensor indicator in the side review mirrors. It’s not even like you can do both, unfortunately, since you either look here or there. I wonder how much driving will change with technology before we get…

What car has sensors that can detect bikes or pedestrians? My Subaru has rear radar, which is great at detecting vehicles that I literally can’t see, but I would never trust that to alert me to bikes or people.
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