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Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

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Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#161

Post by PopsiclePete »

MBCook wrote: post #140
twblalock wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today one can buy electric and/or hybrid cars from Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Volvo, Audi, and even Jaguar. They are not going to stop making gas guzzlers, but they are steadily increasing their commitment to electric cars. If electric cars take over the mass market, most of them will be made by established carmakers who know how to crank out millions of cars per year and have thousands of de…

And even if you do have a garage, would your apartment complex allow you to install a real charger? Or would you get stuck charging with 110v? Unfortunately that little piece of infrastructure could easily be a deal killer for a ton of people. Not everyone is a homeowner with a garage. And parking in a charging space at some random retail establishment every couple days for a few hours to charge just seems insane.

That sounds like a temporary problem to me - not anything fundamentally wrong that can't be fixed.

Apartment complexes where I live (Denver metro) are already competing with each other on features like "bike/snowboard fix-up stations", "Amazon lockers", "heated pool", and other absurdities - you bet they're going to install 220v chargers if it helps lure people in. Eventually, it will be expected - just like the bike fix-up station.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#162

Post by rconti »

gamblor956 wrote: post #154
dmode wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it is impressive. But Toyota was not really a startup with no manufacturing experience in 2000. Edit: Just reading the post twice. Tesla took 7 years to go from ~0 to 250K annually. Toyota took 18 years. Not really an apple to apple comparison

Toyota took 7 years as well. They did not start selling the Prius worldwide until 2000, and they hit 280k worldwide sales within 7 years. But if you want to compare yearly figures...the non-liftback models went from 0 sales to 530,000 in sales in just 2 years. Now that is impressive. And it's also the counterpoint to Musk's Tesla: both Tesla and Toyota knew that demand existed for their cars. But Toyota knew how to e…

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as extremely disingenuous.

They didn't invent the market, the Prius was just a better Honda Insight (primarily by virtue of having 3 more seats). Again, they deserve massive credit for their accomplishments.

But, again, they lose the "sales increase" by a wide margin unless you tweak that by insisting on limiting it to "a single model".

Certainly we don't know if Tesla will survive but the challenges facing a new carmarker of any sort are simply massive, rather than just producing a slightly-differently-propelled model in addition to the millions of conventional cars you already produce.

And where you really fall over is by trying to argue about "the non-liftback models" which I can only presume means the discontinued[1] Prius V which is a slightly-differently-bodied version of an existing car.

[1] https://www.toyota.com/priusv/

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#163

Post by TimTheTinker »

kanox wrote: post #132
dmode wrote: post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

I don't follow Tesla or the automotive market but I do follow space and for many years SpaceX was mocked because of it's low launch rate and delays. They are now #2 by launch rate, behind only China. SpaceX launches 2x to 3x more often than ULA or Ariane and their rampup was also faster than that of comparable vehicles. The argument that a company can't build it's product fast enough to satisfy demand strikes me as e…

SpaceX has Gwynne Shotwell. I’m not sure there’s a similarly capable decision maker at Tesla.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#164

Post by rconti »

gamblor956 wrote: post #155
dragonwriter wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. The first incarnation of the Honda Insight was before the Prius, and somewhat successful before the Prius came on the scene and took over.

Honda Insight was never offered for sale, lease only. I'm not including leases because Tesla does not lease their cars and lease stats are more than a simple Google search away. But if we were to include leases, Prius' stats would look even better.

Your arguments continue to devolve into uninformed or utter bad faith.

The insight WAS offered for sale, and Tesla DOES lease their cars[1]

[1]https://www.tesla.com/support/tesla-leasing

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#165

Post by [deleted] »

gamblor956 wrote: post #112
dmode wrote: post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#166

Post by JonathonW »

kposehn wrote: post #121
curuinor wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, unironically, yes. Prius is one of the most remarkable cars ever, even if actual car enthusiasts weren't very enthused.

As a car enthusiast, while I absolutely despise the driving dynamics of a Prius I deeply appreciate that it and other hybrids have had such a positive impact on cars. Hybrids are now becoming the standard for next gen drivers cars and are honestly pretty amazing tech. Now if only people would stop driving their Prius' 10-under in the fast lane.

Have you driven a fourth-gen Prius (2016+)? Reviewers seem to agree it has a much nicer feel than previous iterations.

(I own a 2018 and am very happy with it, but I've never driven an older one, so I can't personally address any complaints about driving dynamics.)

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#167

Post by aunty_helen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #126
gamblor956 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

> It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. The first incarnation of the Honda Insight was before the Prius, and somewhat successful before the Prius came on the scene and took over.

From wikipedia: >Total global cumulative sales for the first generation Insight were 17,020 units

Thats for '00-'06 sales. idk what the first year sales were but the Pirus was on the scene very soon after the Insight.

The other obvious thing, the Insight looked like a car for weirdos. Something that tesla and later model prius / leaf's have tried to avoid.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#168

Post by madengr »

geerlingguy wrote: post #23
melling wrote: post #21

Beyond the finances, Tesla says they’re still on target for 6000 Model 3’s a week by the end of the month. Throw in the other Models and Tesla will be shipping 300,000-400,000 electric cars a year. That’s quite an accomplishment.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

Probably has to look buggy to keep it compact with sufficient headroom. I’m 6’5” and still have 2” headroom in my Leaf, which is awesome considering it is a compact car. I can also put the seat all the way back and fit an adult behind me. Can’t do that in a Prius or Volt due to their sleekness. I have not been in a Tesla, but I’m guessing the 3 has poor headroom compared to the Leaf.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#169

Post by freehunter »

rconti wrote: post #123
gamblor956 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

It definitely is impressive, and they deserve great credit for their advancements-- I never liked the Prius but it was beyond obvious that every car in the future HAD to have a way of capturing deceleration energy rather than just bleeding it off as crude waste heat -- how silly and archaic that seems now. But I'm not quite clear on your comment-- At first I thought it was to be read that the Toyota accomplishment wa…

I was pretty impressed that my entirely gasoline-powered BMW 3-series apparently will use the braking energy to recharge the battery and disconnect the alternator, saving some small amount of MPG. So the technology is trickling into gasoline-powered cars as well, to save small amounts of fuel.

I've driven a stick-shift for a while in the past and always wondered if there was a way to capture the engine power when you downshift for engine braking coming up to a red light. Not sure how it would work though.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#170

Post by ghaff »

awaythrowit wrote: post #109
iainmerrick wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential question: why do people prefer sedans over hatchbacks? Hatchbacks seem a lot more practical than sedans with no obvious downside. I can see people preferring the looks of one or the other, but neither is objectively prettier.

Perhaps hatchback is seen as teenager's or poor person's car

No but true hatchbacks like Honda’s tend to be fairly small and the general image they’re going for is young, active people.
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