Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#111

Post by radicalbyte » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

rory096 wrote: post #11

secabeen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will they eventually reach a point where they can just run with the capital equipment they already have, and drop the CAPEX spending down?

Their goal is 10k cars/week, so perhaps then. There's also (reported today) $5B planned for the factory in China, expected to be raised largely in-country but with some American/international investment. And, of course, some capex is always necessary to replace depreciating stock and support new models (pickup, new roadster, and truck all planned).

They're talking about building a factory in Europe too, either in The Netherlands or in Germany.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#112

Post by gamblor956 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!!

[1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#113

Post by chipotle_coyote » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #97

iainmerrick wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential question: why do people prefer sedans over hatchbacks? Hatchbacks seem a lot more practical than sedans with no obvious downside. I can see people preferring the looks of one or the other, but neither is objectively prettier.

Sedans are aerodynamic. Hatchbacks can fit more luggage. A hatchback is the responsible choice for for a family car, and therefore boring by association.

The Volkswagen GTI and Golf R would like a word with you.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#114

Post by anyfoo » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #91

Buying a car that's more than, say, $30,000 is such a laughably poor decision. Cars depreciate rapidly unlike real estate where you actually maintain some equity. If you're in your 20s and looking to pump your new RSU wealth into something, almost anything is a better choice than an expensive car.

Who are you to dictate what I should do with my hard-earned money? As long as you can comfortably afford it without any debt, spend the money on what you are enthusiastic on.

Next time you are buying groceries, laptops, or go to a restaurant, I am going to point out all your laughably poor decisions of not spending your money on the absolutely cheapest options.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#115

Post by curuinor » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #112

dmode wrote: post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

I mean, unironically, yes. Prius is one of the most remarkable cars ever, even if actual car enthusiasts weren't very enthused.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#116

Post by dmode » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #112

dmode wrote: post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

I mean it is impressive. But Toyota was not really a startup with no manufacturing experience in 2000.

Edit: Just reading the post twice. Tesla took 7 years to go from ~0 to 250K annually. Toyota took 18 years. Not really an apple to apple comparison

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#117

Post by iainmerrick » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

acover wrote: post #79

iainmerrick wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential question: why do people prefer sedans over hatchbacks? Hatchbacks seem a lot more practical than sedans with no obvious downside. I can see people preferring the looks of one or the other, but neither is objectively prettier.

Hatchbacks cost more

I was going to say you’re wrong, but apparently in the US you’re right! Very strange.

I think that is a US-specific thing.

For some reason US customers prefer sedans (maybe some of the reasons given by other commenters) and that has probably skewed the market a bit (e.g. hatchbacks are only sold at higher trim levels since they’re marketed as a niche product).

Edit to add: and maybe there’s a feedback effect too? Hatchbacks are more expensive because they’re less popular, so then they’re less popular because they’re more expensive.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#118

Post by mikepavone » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #92

mikepavone wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Given that Ford is largely abandoning sedans, it would seem that they're not particularly popular anymore. The Leaf and Bolt aren't all that weird looking for hatchbacks. Original Leaf had some weird-ish features (like the headlights), but mostly had a similar profile to the Nissan Versa hatchback. The new 2018 mod…

>Given that Ford is largely abandoning sedans, *Entirely abandoning. Ford no longer produces any sedan models [0]. [0] http://fortune.com/2018/04/26/ford-no-longer-making-sedans/

They're still making the Mustang, but I suppose that's technically a 2+2 rather than a sedan.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#119

Post by Meekro » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

Puer wrote: post #34

geerlingguy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

Because car companies are horridly shortsighted. All of the major US car makers right now are doubling down on building gas-guzzling pickup trucks and SUVs because they have a nice profit margin and because Americans love commuting alone downtown in traffic every day in their seats 7, 20 mpg abominations with trunks and beds that are never used. Maybe it's what's necessary to survive in the moment and maybe the momen…

Large cars are safer. The IIHS publishes a stat they call "driver deaths per million registered vehicle years." Check it out: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/on-the-road-again-...

Notice a pattern? All of the safest cars (including the handful in which nobody died) are large. Mostly SUVs and pickups, with a few luxury sedans thrown in. All of the least safe cars are small. Many of them are tiny.

Incidentally, electric cars tend to be very safe for their size because the battery makes them weigh more. I'm all for that-- I'm just saying that Americans' love of large cars isn't entirely irrational. Some very unlucky Ford Fiesta drivers would still be alive if they'd been behind the wheel of a Jeep Cherokee.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#120

Post by giobox » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #108

giobox wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This simply isn't true - the Chevrolet Bolt has an EPA-estimate 238 mile range, with many reviewers getting close to 300. Pretty much what you get in a base Model 3. What's more you can actually walk into a dealership and buy a Bolt today, good luck trying that with a Model 3. It also costs almost 15 grand less than the cheapest Model 3 Tesla is currently shipping, given they still don't have a release date for the m…

There are a lot of automotive buying decisions where you can save $15k by purchasing a smaller, slower, uglier car. It’s not a choice people always make.

Couldn't agree more. It's also not the point I'm making.

Parent comment used the example of the 89 mile range Honda Clarity as evidence you don't get competitive battery range on non-Tesla cars. This is demonstrably not true.