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Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

ir.tesla.com

151–160 of 243 posts

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#151
post #21

Beyond the finances, Tesla says they’re still on target for 6000 Model 3’s a week by the end of the month. Throw in the other Models and Tesla will be shipping 300,000-400,000 electric cars a year. That’s quite an accomplishment.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

Each to their own, however the Leaf looks good in its 2018 refresh, the earlier model was a design abomination but some people bought them.

In Europe with tighter roads and enough charging stations springing up the new Leaf is looking more desirable than the Model 3. The range has increased on the Leaf for 2018 and with the growing infrastructure in charging I am not sure everyone needs the increased range of the 3.

Nissan have earned their spurs in EV, as have Tesla obviously. I would be happy buying from them due to their innovation and design effort. I would not buy an electric VW Golf or even an electric Smart Car as that ground up engineering hasn't been done, it is a mere retro-fit of an existing fossil-burner.

I think the fossil-burner marques that thought they could just put some batteries in the back seat and rip out the ICE did so for regulatory lip-service reasons, a bit like how Aston Martin came out with a re-badged Toyota iQ so that the average fuel consumption figures across their fleet could be lowered. Clearly it is not in the Aston Martin DNA to make a car that is vaguely safe outside school gates. Neither has it been in the DNA of the Big Three or the German auto companies to want to do electric power properly.

I don't know what the Chevy Bolt is there for, however I think the Nissan Leaf has grown into something that suits the European market really well. Teslas are a bit too land-yacht sized for Europe plus European buyers have different standards when it comes to panel fit. Even the 'autopilot' is ridiculous in European markets where there are 'roads and motorways' not 'highways, surface roads and the interstate'. The ludicrous mode is nice to have but the novelty has worn off. The Leaf is quicker on the 0-60 times than the Nissan Qashqai and able to compete at the lights with pimped fossil burners, that is enough, there is no need for it to trounce passing Ferraris.

The BMW i3 fits a niche in London as it is compact enough to actually park. People can sneak into EV only parking spots and avoid congestion charges. There are people able to pay the premium for these benefits, they are not necessarily wanting to go green, just have private transport and be able to park it.

Tesla are working their way down from the top of the market and it could be a while before they create an 'econobox'. Realistically there is a good chance that the car you want comes from elsewhere, e.g. China, and that it has new technology such as a much smaller battery coupled to a supercapacitor for regen/city economy. Waiting for the fossil burning marques to produce something is a waste of time, EV is not in their DNA.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#152
post #114

Buying a car that's more than, say, $30,000 is such a laughably poor decision. Cars depreciate rapidly unlike real estate where you actually maintain some equity. If you're in your 20s and looking to pump your new RSU wealth into something, almost anything is a better choice than an expensive car.

Who are you to dictate what I should do with my hard-earned money? As long as you can comfortably afford it without any debt, spend the money on what you are enthusiastic on. Next time you are buying groceries, laptops, or go to a restaurant, I am going to point out all your laughably poor decisions of not spending your money on the absolutely cheapest options.

That's a pretty ridiculous comparison because of the difference in scale. There are significant opportunity costs to putting 10s of thousands of dollars into something that will depreciate in value over time rather than increase. Especially when you're in your 20's. That amount of money invested could be worth a lot more in 30 years. Compound growth is your friend.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#153
post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

This is not a direct comparison even though everyone should appreciate Toyota’s accomplishment. Tesla started from nothing.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#154
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

I mean it is impressive. But Toyota was not really a startup with no manufacturing experience in 2000. Edit: Just reading the post twice. Tesla took 7 years to go from ~0 to 250K annually. Toyota took 18 years. Not really an apple to apple comparison

Toyota took 7 years as well. They did not start selling the Prius worldwide until 2000, and they hit 280k worldwide sales within 7 years.

But if you want to compare yearly figures...the non-liftback models went from 0 sales to 530,000 in sales in just 2 years. Now that is impressive. And it's also the counterpoint to Musk's Tesla: both Tesla and Toyota knew that demand existed for their cars. But Toyota knew how to execute properly, and did so, and was able to satisfy that demand. Tesla so far has royally fucked up, continues to fuck up, and it's up in the air whether they'll be able to right the ship before they run out of money.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

> It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. The first incarnation of the Honda Insight was before the Prius, and somewhat successful before the Prius came on the scene and took over.

Honda Insight was never offered for sale, lease only. I'm not including leases because Tesla does not lease their cars and lease stats are more than a simple Google search away. But if we were to include leases, Prius' stats would look even better.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#156
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it is impressive. But Toyota was not really a startup with no manufacturing experience in 2000. Edit: Just reading the post twice. Tesla took 7 years to go from ~0 to 250K annually. Toyota took 18 years. Not really an apple to apple comparison

Toyota took 7 years as well. They did not start selling the Prius worldwide until 2000, and they hit 280k worldwide sales within 7 years. But if you want to compare yearly figures...the non-liftback models went from 0 sales to 530,000 in sales in just 2 years. Now that is impressive. And it's also the counterpoint to Musk's Tesla: both Tesla and Toyota knew that demand existed for their cars. But Toyota knew how to e…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sedans are a bit easier to cool/warm due to less air volume. The trunk also feels more secure for storage of valuables than leaving them exposed in a glass hatchback’s rear. Style and price also play into it I think but even cheap hatchbacks like the Ford Fiesta don’t sell that well in the US. In general people looking for a practical car in the US are often buying a crossover, SUV, or pickup truck.

Hmm, those are interesting points, although it seems like both can be addressed with a simple cover over the trunk. I think you’re right that SUVs and crossovers are taking over, from both sedans and traditional hatchbacks. It must just be fashion, as SUVs don’t have any real advantage -- most people never do any off-roading or haul large sports equipment, and most “SUVs” wouldn’t be up to the job anyway.

SUVs sit up higher. This makes them easier to get into and out of.

SUVs are basically hatchbacks. I currently own a hatchback (GTI) and our old SUV was easier to get into and out of. The GTI is more fun to drive though.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#158
post #21

Beyond the finances, Tesla says they’re still on target for 6000 Model 3’s a week by the end of the month. Throw in the other Models and Tesla will be shipping 300,000-400,000 electric cars a year. That’s quite an accomplishment.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

I believe it's for the exact same reason other Big Companies are incapable of delivering anything "exciting":

1. Soulless design-by-committee. 2. Complex internal politics - "Cool idea you have there with the Prius, but I don't want to see it become too successful and eat into the sales of the Corolla. We need to sell 200k Corollas or I don't get my bonus". 3. The "proven" technique of having focus groups with a diverse crowd of aged-35+ white suburban soccer moms tell you what features they value in a car the most.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. The first incarnation of the Honda Insight was before the Prius, and somewhat successful before the Prius came on the scene and took over.

Honda Insight was never offered for sale, lease only. I'm not including leases because Tesla does not lease their cars and lease stats are more than a simple Google search away. But if we were to include leases, Prius' stats would look even better.

> Honda Insight was never offered for sale, lease only.

No, 17,000 or so were sold, and it was the first mass produced hybrid sold in the US.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#160
post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

> [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

If we relax that "restriction"... Toyota says they sold 1.52 million electrified vehicles in 2017. That includes the Prius (both hybrid and PHEV variants), all their other hybrids (they have at least one hybrid option in most market segments they cover now), and the Mirai (fuel cell vehicle), across both the Toyota and Lexus brands.

It sounds a little less impressive when you realize that's only about 15% of the vehicles they sold globally, though (10.386 million cars globally, although I'm not 100% sure if that number includes Lexus).

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