Most PhD students do not end up being professors. Not everybody who works at a firm is expected to rise to be CEO or partner.
Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
251–259 of 259 posts
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#252I miss grad school... I was terrible at it in the traditional sense but I enjoy thinking about research problems. I'm not very good at academia though. All sorts of PTSD and the like. I think it was due to an ever encompassing fear of failure and going back to trying to solve word math problems... But I enjoyed the creativity of thinking about questions that could potentially be solved with the combo of certain tools already available. Even now I can see a whole host of interesting things to research and pursue.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What you're describing as what you didn't expect is how PhDs were done traditionally. It's the more recent US model to have classes and exams. Classes and exams in a PhD programme? I've never heard of this anywhere - I had no idea that was a thing in the US. There is an ugly trend in the UK to having "credits" for attending workshops as part of your "personal development". You basically have to go and sit in a work…
I think the UK thing is wrapped up in the idea of a CDT, which seems to be trying to make our PhD programme more like the American style. I really don't like it! I don't think PhD students should be sitting in a class or going through as a cohort. You're supposed to be a professional, independent researcher. My first day of my PhD, I was shown my desk at 9 am and told 'get researching, mate'.
In the US, this is the case because most US PhD programs do not require a master's degree. From my understanding, you are expected to come in with a master's in many European countries.
Also, many first year students do productive research in the US. It very much depends on you're relationship with your advisor and your familiarity with the subject matter.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Results that aren't disseminated are functionally useless.
Sure, results need to be published. The problem is that the cart is put before the horse: we decide to publish the results, and where to publish, before we have an inkling of what the results will be.
I'm not necessarily sure this is the cart before the horse.
Deciding to publish the results can just as easily be restated as "Come up with an experiment with a clear and precise scope"
Where to publish is often determining what audience and what questions to ask. For example, targeting a clinical journal means proofs and analytical results may be less compelling, while a simulation of a study might be of active interest.
Both of those help narrow the scope of "All possible interesting questions" to something tractable.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my opinion, that’s what needs to happen. Thin out the ranks of professors as they move to greener pastures in the workforce and eventually you’ll see schools get in a position where they have to work harder to recruit. Better pay, benefits, support, etc.
That's pretty much happening in computer science in the US. Pay for CS faculty members has been rising significantly faster than inflation, and faster than other fields, although still not nearly as fast as in industry. A brain-drain of people at all levels of seniority to high-paid tech jobs is a big part of it, although increase in demand is another part of it (the number of incoming freshmen declaring a CS major i…
> Alternately, people seem to be doing a kind of "industry postdoc"
This isn't new. I had plenty of professors that worked at e.g. Bell Labs before returning to academia.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have experience with both mathematics and CS departments, and I have exactly the opposite opinion. I think the Old School Mathematics model is absolute garbage and often explicitly and intentionally exploitative. 1. It's not like those math Ph.D.s are sitting around reading textbooks with their advisors. They are TA'ing service courses. A lot of TA'ing. In addition to TA'ing, they are prepping for a high-stakes exa…
> The exam will wash out the 50-70% of people who are needed as temp TA labor but whom the department has no intention of advising through to a Ph.D. At which department? Speaking as a math professor in an American research university -- this is unusual. Pass rates at most places are reasonably high, and professors hope that as many people as possible pass. It is true that grad students are expected to TA (if they wa…
> rates at most places are reasonably high
If you really believe this, pressure USC's department to start publishing their pass rates each year and pressure your peers at other institutions to do the same. IME departments outright lie on visit days and/or change their definition of "reasonable" any time they accidentally over-admit.
E.g., Berkeley -- one of the few places to actually reveal information of any sort on prelim pass rates -- describes their pass rate as "reasonable" and in the same sentence goes on to clarify that they typically pass 2/3rds of students but of course don't make any promises or anything.
Maybe us Ph.D.s are so damn battle-scarred we don't realize that a 1/3rd attrition rate on a poverty salary is actually really unacceptable and absolutely not normal? Can you name a single software company that works like that?
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#257Just want to share my friend's experience as someone who dropped out of a MIT graduate program to be a SWE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYX9MuWy4cE
Hope he gets a gig, a MIT Grad degree doesn't hurt his chances either. Went through the other videos on his channel and that qualifying exam problem set was tough imo.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#258As a PhD dropout myself, I understand entirely the decision of these students to distance themselves from what were obviously negative experiences for them. Unlike those listed in this article, I actually ended up staying in my field of study for work, but psychologically it has been very difficult. When I'm confronted with situations that reminded of what could have been if I had finished my degree, I sincerely wish…
Hey, I just graduated with a Ph.D. degree and I feel the same way you do. The process did leave a lot of scars in my mind. I just can't imagine how hard it is for you to not have received a degree.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
This has been my experience as a CS Ph.D. student at a top US university as well--the pay is way less than industry, but it's enough to have a decent quality of life. In my department, students make about $40K/year as a base salary, which is not a lot, but enough to get by with. Add a summer internship to this, and your income is not too shabby--I made about $70K this year. Now, of course, I realize this is half or l…
> In my department, students make about $40K/year as a base salary. That's incredibly high as a base rate! Most departments I know pay between $28k and $32k. The only people I know at $40k have an NSF fellowship.
We make double stipend during the summer, to try to somewhat offset the financial incentive to take a summer internship. I'm including this in the base rate--without, it's probably closer to $32K.