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Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

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Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#221

Post by asafira »

binbag wrote: post #38

This sounds very obvious, but everyone I know who dropped out of their PhD wasn't cut out for doing one. If you are feeling guilty about reading more papers, you shouldn't be doing a doctoral degree. On the other hand, when you're a post-doc I totally agree that there is more to life than the 'big fish in a small pond' world of academia. There is something particularly annoying about the academic environment - some c…

Why did people feel guilty to read papers?

Seems like a strange reason to drop out.

I know many more people who dropped out because of poor management than those that didn't seem to be good at it.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#222

Post by asafira »

anonytrary wrote: post #128
rdlecler1 wrote: post #98

I wish we’d move to a 3 year PhD program now that you have 5-10 year postdocs if you even have a career in you’re field at all.

Three years is not nearly enough time to finish PhD thesis work as an experimental physicist. Even if the goalpost was lowered for a PhD, a three year PhD program in physics would just be a glorified masters degree. Plus, if it's even easier to get PhDs, we'll just end up with even more people having PhDs and the status associated with the PhD will be even lower. PhDs are becoming relatively commonplace, and the vast…

As a PhD in experimental physics, I totally agree.

That said, I still think they have room in making it a shorter length PhD. Not 3 years, but there are several groups where less than 6 years is rare, but 6-7 is normal.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#224

Post by sah2ed »

gajjanag wrote: post #173
awelkie wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on the field. In mathematics I think the expectation is that students need to study for a few years to even understand what the open questions are, and only then can they begin the research. I'm fully aware of what the point of a PhD is. I wasn't expecting to become a generalist, but I was expecting some time to study some recent results and come up with a tractable research proposal. Indeed, if th…

> Indeed, if the purpose of a PhD is to expand the totality of human knowledge, why was it expected that I would publish 3-4 conference papers to graduate? This is a question that bothers me quite a bit with respect to EECS (electrical engineering and computer science). In mathematics, one's PhD thesis can often serve as one's first paper (once revised). Funnily enough, the same was true for EECS even at the top tier…

Thanks for the pointer to Peter Sarnak's advice. I believe this is the history of ideas advice you were referring to on pg 1008 (1031 in pdf):

When learning an area, one should combine reading modern treatments with a study of the original papers, especially papers by the masters of our subject. One of the troubles with recent accounts of certain topics is that they can become too slick. As each new author finds cleverer proofs or treatments of a theory, the treatment evolves toward the one that contains the “shortest proofs.” Unfortunately, these are often in a form that causes the new student to ponder, “How did anyone think of this?” By going back to the original sources one can usually see the subject evolving naturally and understand how it has reached its modern form. (There will remain those unexpected and brilliant steps at which one can only marvel at the genius of the inventor, but there are far fewer of these than you might think.)

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#225

Post by shoo »

ronald_raygun wrote: post #214

There is a joke I like that goes A professor of mathematics noticed that his kitchen sink at his home leaked. He called a plumber. The plumber came the next day and sealed a few screws, and everything was working as before. The professor was delighted. However, when the plumber gave him the bill a minute later, he was shocked. "This is one-third of my monthly salary!" he yelled. Well, all the same he paid it and then…

well told! i've heard this before as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13587528

the entire HN thread for "CIA Declassified Coldwar Russian Jokes [pdf]" is pretty good value https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13585511

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#226

Post by [deleted] »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #212
luizfzs wrote: post #4

I have a master's degree and I learned early that getting a PhD was not for me. The way things worked at the university made me not stand to be in that environment anymore. This thing that is ridiculous in my opinion is that the advisor would say: "there is this conference coming and we will send a manuscript. We can try this and that to see if it is publishable.". Why the hell should I research for publishing? One s…

It's pretty standard in industry to get a deadline by which you need to finish your project when you start working on it.

[deleted]

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#227

Post by taejo »

Fomite wrote: post #154
anjc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the downvotes. Publishing something takes a lot of directed effort. It's so tough to stop doing (what feels like) the real work, and quickly squeeze out a submission for a conference that has a 10% acceptance rate. Of course publishing is extremely important, but too large a focus on publishing hampers results.

Results that aren't disseminated are functionally useless.

Sure, results need to be published. The problem is that the cart is put before the horse: we decide to publish the results, and where to publish, before we have an inkling of what the results will be.

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#228

Post by TimonKnigge »

neuromantik8086 wrote: post #195
_delirium wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much happening in computer science in the US. Pay for CS faculty members has been rising significantly faster than inflation, and faster than other fields, although still not nearly as fast as in industry. A brain-drain of people at all levels of seniority to high-paid tech jobs is a big part of it, although increase in demand is another part of it (the number of incoming freshmen declaring a CS major i…

> Still plenty of stuff to complain about, but the job market looks far different than in the natural sciences or humanities. Yup. Economics [0] and comp sci are basically the only doctoral programs worth going into at this point (at least if you're an American citizen). You can debate which one is _more_ worth it, but the fact is that if you're doing anything else, you're in a for a world of pain. [0] http://noahpin…

Tangentially, the author now prefers applied mathematics to economics [0].

[0] https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1015988356184866817

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#229

Post by davidgay »

geebee wrote: post #24
luizfzs wrote: post #4

I have a master's degree and I learned early that getting a PhD was not for me. The way things worked at the university made me not stand to be in that environment anymore. This thing that is ridiculous in my opinion is that the advisor would say: "there is this conference coming and we will send a manuscript. We can try this and that to see if it is publishable.". Why the hell should I research for publishing? One s…

I have a masters degree, bailed on a phD, and even then I didn't realize it quite quickly enough. My MS program at Berkeley was quite flexible, and it was easy enough to get the requisite math. I dropped courses like Intellectual Property (cross listed with the law school), Product Development (cross listed with the business school), courses I was enjoying and would have done quite well in, to take classes like "adva…

> atrition at UCSF's med school is below 0.5%, whereas many PhD programs have attrition rates about 50%

Some of us went through school systems with 50% pass rates for middle school, high school and university, so don't find that either surprising, nor necessarily bad.

In fact, I at least am somewhat confused that a high pass rate is considered "good" - it clearly encourages grade inflation and arguably devalues the received degree...

Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs

#230

Post by Chris2048 »

gowld wrote: post #110
rsinmtl wrote: post #100

The main subject in this story was pursuing a PhD in "Women's Studies". Not to disparage that field of study, but it's quite obvious that it is a pretty useless degree that limits you to a career as a Women's Studies professor. I don't think this is a good illustration of people who leave PhD programs

"Women's Studies" opens doors to a career as an author or a political activist. Like other PhDs, it prepares to have an impact on the world via the field of study. It's not a likely financially lucrative career, but it's not a useless one.

Who's hiring authors/political activists, but refusing to hire non-PhDs?
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