For most people, getting a PhD is a bad idea. The odds that all that time and effort will pay back is small in most fields. Of course, it depends on the field and what you plan to do with it. I have a PhD in computing, and I'm glad I do. But it is definitely not for everyone.
Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
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Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of academia is toxic. Those who don't see that haven't spent enough time in it. I believe things can't go well in general in any area where money comes from organized begging ("proposals", "apply for funding"), driven by reputation ("publications", "impact factor") and where the bad eggs can't even be fired ("tenure")
> driver by reputation ("publications", "impact factor") and where the bad eggs can't even be fired ("tenure") From personal experience, I've always felt as though the existence of "rock star" academics always gave academia a Hollywood-like feel in terms of systemic abuse and candidly bizarre and maladaptive behaviors on the part of researchers.
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Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#73Genuinely shocked that graduate programs remain stuffed to the gills. You live off a meager stipend for about a decade and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field, you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you. Big dreams of teaching in the Pacific Northwest? Too bad, the only plac…
I just finished my PhD at the age of 28 from an unranked department and received several offers for tenure-track positions at R1 universities. Internships brought my annual income up to well above the national average.
With my new position, my friends in software engineering without a PhD are making 5-30% more than me (in much more expensive areas) and don't have near as much freedom as I do to work on what I want.
I'm definitely glad I went this route.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#74A PhD is a degree in conducting research. Get one if you want a career in research. If you don't like research, don't do a PhD. Any decent program pays students about a $1.5-3K monthly stipend. Don't have being a professor as the only acceptable end-goal.
There are lots of careers that benefit from or require a PhD besides being a professor. People with STEM PhDs are found in great concentration in R&D settings. For example, when I worked at NASA JPL probably about 50%+ of the scientists had PhDs.
Outside of STEM activities, it can still be an enriching life experience. You don't incur significant debt. It does have a high opportunity cost, if one's undergraduate degree is lucrative. On the other hand, you get the privilege to spend your time trying to create new knowledge.
Real PhD Issues (and Cons):
1) Research is hard and it requires a massive time investment to create new knowledge, especially when just starting.
2) High levels of impostor syndrome. You will likely meet people much smarter than you, and those that can work 80+ hours per week for years. If you fall into the trap of comparing yourself to them, your mental health will suffer. You have to just work toward solving your problems. As one old friend put it, he felt like a genius when he worked as a software developer, but throughout his PhD he felt like an underachiever.
3) Jealousy of your friends "getting their lives started" (kids, buying a home, etc.). Very hard to have any work-life balance as a PhD student.
4) Don't expect to get rich after a PhD. Do it because you think a career in research will be satisfying.
5) If you want to be a tenure-track professor running a lab, you have to be very flexible with where you live. Being a professor is also very stressful.
6) If you want to teach in college, a PhD is required but the main thing a PhD teaches is research -- not teaching.
7) Clearly assess your ability to get a professorship if you choose to do a podstoc. There is little point in one unless a professorship is your end-goal. Many don't realistically assess their competitiveness for professorships. I wrote a blog post about this about 6 years ago (it needs updating): http://www.chriskanan.com/planning-for-life-after-your-phd/
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#75I feel like PhDs in Computer Science should have better job prospects outside of Academia. Some jobs, like "research scientist", require PhDs. Look at companies like Lyft that are currently hiring "Research Scientist" (e.g. https://www.lyft.com/jobs/4014499002 ) where they require a M.S.or PhD.
The majority of PhDs in computer science (around 2/3) do get jobs outside of academia [1]. Google might be the single biggest current hirer. I think that it's always been pretty common in this field though. Places like IBM and Bell Labs used to hire large numbers of PhDs back when they had big research groups. And at least in my PhD program, there was never an expectation that an academic job was the post-PhD career path, which I've heard people complain about in other fields. Plenty of our alumni worked in industrial research labs and it was pretty clear that that was one of the standard post-PhD options.
[1] Source: https://cra.org/resources/taulbee-survey/
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#76Genuinely shocked that graduate programs remain stuffed to the gills. You live off a meager stipend for about a decade and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field, you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you. Big dreams of teaching in the Pacific Northwest? Too bad, the only plac…
I just finished my PhD at the age of 28 from an unranked department and received several offers for tenure-track positions at R1 universities. Internships brought my annual income up to well above the national average. With my new position, my friends in software engineering without a PhD are making 5-30% more than me (in much more expensive areas) and don't have near as much freedom as I do to work on what I want. I…
That is a very field-dependent experience, and probably unusual even in your field. In many STEM fields, there is essentially zero chance of obtaining a TT position directly after PhD.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#77Genuinely shocked that graduate programs remain stuffed to the gills. You live off a meager stipend for about a decade and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field, you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you. Big dreams of teaching in the Pacific Northwest? Too bad, the only plac…
> You live off a meager stipend for about a decade Keep in mind that this is not necessarily true for schools in countries outside of the US. At my school, KTH Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, as a PhD student you are considered an employee of the school and you are paid a living wage with full benefits. The current salary starts at 28600 SEK/month and can reach up to 33500 SEK/month [1] which is definitel…
This has been my experience as a CS Ph.D. student at a top US university as well--the pay is way less than industry, but it's enough to have a decent quality of life.
In my department, students make about $40K/year as a base salary, which is not a lot, but enough to get by with. Add a summer internship to this, and your income is not too shabby--I made about $70K this year.
Now, of course, I realize this is half or less of what students would be making in industry. But it's enough that quality of life is pretty decent.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why the hell should I research for publishing? Because publications pretty much define your scientific contributions, i.e. your productivity as a researcher. > One should get the results AND THEN publish it. You must have had a body of work that was just about worthy of publication though, right?
Im not saying 'why publishing?'. Im saying 'why publish if I barely know if what Im doing will have some positive result? Think of this example: we are researching for a few months whether an arbitrary compound X has relieffing effects on people with headache, but since we are still researching, there is no concrete result or any slight evidence yet. maybe the compound will relief the headache in 30min but maybe it w…
I don't know why the downvotes. Publishing something takes a lot of directed effort. It's so tough to stop doing (what feels like) the real work, and quickly squeeze out a submission for a conference that has a 10% acceptance rate. Of course publishing is extremely important, but too large a focus on publishing hampers results.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#79Genuinely shocked that graduate programs remain stuffed to the gills. You live off a meager stipend for about a decade and then, in your mid-30s, you go on the job market for the first time. Unless you're somehow in the top 0.1% of your field, you're probably going to be fighting for a tenure-track positions at any institution that will take you. Big dreams of teaching in the Pacific Northwest? Too bad, the only plac…
Well, to be fair, I had a kid when I was 22 and getting into grad school.
It's a good thing for him that I've only gotten good at math in the last couple of years.
Re: Why some PhDs are quitting academia for unconventional jobs
#80I have a masters in Mechanical Engineering and I always wanted to get a PhD. But it's unfortunate that it makes no financial sense. I make a meager (relative compared to full wage) 25K to 30K for about 5 years (and this is on the high side!). When I finish school and decide not to go the academic route, I make maybe a little more than my counter parts that have been working for 5 years...Also, I find anecdotally that…
If your goal is to go into management, you probably don't love the subject enough to do a PhD.