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European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

bbc.com

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Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#261

Post by bgorman »

codetrotter wrote: post #154
josteink wrote: post #10

This is what happens when those in control don't understand, know or care about the things they regulate. So I guess this is bad. --goes and reads article-- > Article 11, requiring online platforms to pay publishers a fee if they link to their news content, was also approved. What the fucking FUCK? Pay to send companies actual traffic? Pay to be allowed to use the basic building-block of the world wide web on the wor…

> Pay to send companies actual traffic? Pay to be allowed to use the basic building-block of the world wide web on the world wide web? It's absolute madness. Some people say that you can't solve political problems with technology but at this point it seems to me that politicians are ruining the web and there is no stopping them by political means. So it will have to be a technological solution. We need strong anonymi…

Perhaps the solution is political, but it involves breaking up the worlds current political order i.e. "democracy".

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#262

Post by detaro »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #260
phicoh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note the text 'and an inalienable right to obtain an fair and proportionate remuneration for such uses' The idea is to make it impossible to give Google a free license. The best outcome would be if Google would refuse to link to any content of European publishers.

Capitalism here. We'd just charge Google the absolute minimum amount (0.00000000001 cent per click) and outdo our competition.

Proposal here, the language is a bit cleverer than "above zero".

https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/voss11.pdf

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#263

Post by merinowool »

detaro wrote: post #140
merinowool wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing is that the media are licensed, so they cannot go against the government out of fear of losing such license. Now, one could assume that this copyright thing is a smokescreen to introduce EU wide censorship as everything users upload would have to be checked for "copyright breach".

Which media is "licensed" and thus can not go against the government?

All radio and TV and in some countries the press as well.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#264

Post by T-N-T »

growlist wrote: post #258
Sammi wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European Coal and Steel Community was explicitly started to stop war in Europe. As the original proposal of the community said directly: "The solidarity in production thus established will make it plain that any war between France and Germany becomes not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible" [0]. Steel and coal (or more generally energy) are necessary in order to to wage war. Pooling these things in a su…

This claim that the EU/predecessor organisations have secured the peace since WW2 is often made but I think is impossible to verify, since we have no way of rerunning history without the EU in place. Some point to NATO as far more significant a guarantor of peace than the EU.

The biggest guarantor of Germany not invading France again is that France has nuclear bombs and no one ever invaded a country that has the nuclear bomb, which is why people are panicking at the idea of NK having it because it would be impossible to topple their dictatorship and interfere if they had the threat of the bomb.

> Some point to NATO as far more significant a guarantor of peace than the EU

NATO has never been a deterrent but was used after the fact when conflicts just had to come about. Like the Kosovo War which involved factions that didn't have the mushroom assured mutual destruction.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#265

Post by akie »

nickik wrote: post #179
ginko wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However these sudo-democratic want-be centralized state is totally against the history of European has already caused a endless serious of disaster and mismanagement. How is the EU particularly undemocratic? I'm Austrian and most of the European branches map relatively well to our own federal structure. (Nationalrat -> European parliament, Government -> Commission, Bundesrat -> Council(although that one has more pow…

For me a democracy polity should be more then a structure and the ability to vote. I would wager that most people in the EU have never even heard about this fundamental change to their lives, or even speak the language to understand the debate. Look at how the EU handled the economic crisis. Nothing democratic about the decision making. But many of the decisions still implemented under EU cover. The European parliame…

> I was not talking about this one law, but rather in general.

I think this holds true in the general case as well.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#266

Post by akie »

sparkling wrote: post #118
leifg wrote: post #107

As a EU citizen I have always been (and still am) a strong advocate for the European Union. I think the founding of the European Union was one of the greatest things that could ever happen to European citizens. I full heartedly believe this institution played a major role in retaining the piece after World War 2. The concept of open borders in (most of) Europe is something I would never want to miss. But seeing the l…

The EU needs a full "rewrite". The levels or bureaucratic nonsense are unbelievable. Just the sheer number of laws and regulations being pumped out every year is crazy.

That's such nonsense.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#267

Post by DanBC »

sparkling wrote: post #118
leifg wrote: post #107

As a EU citizen I have always been (and still am) a strong advocate for the European Union. I think the founding of the European Union was one of the greatest things that could ever happen to European citizens. I full heartedly believe this institution played a major role in retaining the piece after World War 2. The concept of open borders in (most of) Europe is something I would never want to miss. But seeing the l…

The EU needs a full "rewrite". The levels or bureaucratic nonsense are unbelievable. Just the sheer number of laws and regulations being pumped out every year is crazy.

Without looking, how many laws and regulations are being pumped out each year?

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#268

Post by hartator »

sebst wrote: post #257

Technically, a law like this is prone to be abused for censorship purposes. Whether this “dual use” is intended or not by parliamentarian voters, is obviously unclear. To make it even worse, such laws don’t “outlaw” some behaviour, but put a high risk on it through civil law. So, it helps multinationals (and a possible malevolent regime) and hurts small companies as well as citizens. To me, it’s hard to believe this…

Don’t forget compliance with GDPR probably means it’s not possible to comply with this new copyright laws. Fun times for EU startups.

P.S.: Taking some risks quoting Ayn Rand on HN. :)

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#269

Post by tom_mellior »

monsieurbanana wrote: post #250
andy_ppp wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if any of these people have received campaign funding from entrenched industries that benefit from draconian copyright laws? Having said that, GDPR has actually turned out to be a very well thought through piece of legislation - I actually agree with it's premises largely and the fact we can't take a database dump anymore and have full access to people's personal details is an extremely good thing IMO. How F…

Facebook doesn't need to justify it. All they need to do is send a notice to their users asking for consent. How many of them do will read what that entails, and how many of those would decide their privacy is more important for them than facebook?

My understanding is that consent is not sufficient. In addition, data collection must directly serve a legitimate business purpose. Though I guess Facebook has lawyers willing to argue that anything they do serves their core business.

Re: European parliament committee approves vote on ‘disastrous’ copyright bill

#270

Post by growlist »

ginko wrote: post #156
nickik wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but this is just not a credible story. The current day EU simply did not exist for most of Post-WW, so it can absolutely not have been a reason why there was no war. I am in favor of things like free movement of goods and services. I also in favor working together on things like European Space Agency. However these sudo-democratic want-be centralized state is totally against the history of European has alre…

>However these sudo-democratic want-be centralized state is totally against the history of European has already caused a endless serious of disaster and mismanagement. How is the EU particularly undemocratic? I'm Austrian and most of the European branches map relatively well to our own federal structure. (Nationalrat -> European parliament, Government -> Commission, Bundesrat -> Council(although that one has more pow…

What is your view on the EU's typically hostile response to democracy when voters prove disobedient? I'm thinking for example of Ireland being forced to rerun the vote on the Nice treaty, and the ramming through of the European Constitution after French and Dutch rejection by renaming it the Lisbon Treaty.
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