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Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...you're comparing reducing the costs of getting into space with the achievement of developing the technology that actually made it possible to get into space? The latter is a revolution. The former is just an incremental evolution. Laudable, but nowhere close to the same level of accomplishment.

> So...you're comparing reducing the costs of getting into space with the achievement of developing the technology that actually made it possible to get into space? Not at all. I am just pointing out that the popularity of SpaceX stems from much more than just ‘wishful thinking’. In a short time and against all odds, they’ve established themselves as the leading space launch provider, and they have a realistic chance…

Not a problem, though, give it another 5-10 years and it will be extremely clear what SpaceX has achieved.

For example, here's the CNES (French space agency) Director of Launchers discussing SpaceX's achievements, and his desire to design Ariane NEXT to be similar to Falcon 9:

https://satelliteobservation.net/2018/06/02/cnes-director-of...

> For Falcon 9 for instance, they use a toss-back trajectory. An engine is relit while going against the aerodynamic flow, which is actually quite complicated to achieve. We worked on that with ONERA, the French national aerospace lab, and realized it’s pretty complicated.

and, right after talking about how SpaceX's design stages lower, has a common engine between stages, and allows experimentation in landings:

> Prometheus can be used in a new architecture which we call Ariane Next. It will have 7 such engines on the first stage and 1 on the second stage, and can be used in expendable or reusable mode, allowing to experiment reuse easily. The objective is to learn by testing, which is not a European speciality.

There's no greater endorsement than by a competitor.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#362
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla has $28.6 billion in assets, according to NASDAQ[0], yet their market cap is nearly twice that. Is that a normal ratio? No. Ford has $257 billion in assets for example but a smaller market cap than Tesla. One could argue that "Market cap" is a poor metric of size and that "Enterprise Value" is better. Teslas numbers move in the right direction if you're looking at Enterprise Value, but its still kinda bad in…

Ford also has $222 billion in liabilities

Note that enterprise value takes into account liabilities. Which is why I mentioned it.

Also note that of Tesla's $28 Billion in assets, Tesla has $24-billion in liabilities. So the company is overall +$4 Billion in assets, while Ford is +$35 Billion in assets.

So Ford is 9x bigger than Tesla by assets, and is also 9x bigger by (Assets - Liabilities). In either case, the metric suggests that Ford should be bigger than Tesla, and yet both Tesla's market cap AND enterprise value is larger.

Clearly, no one investing cares about Tesla's current size relative to Ford. At best, people are speculating on Tesla's future growth.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#363
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also given they're having trouble with that manufacturing output, I can't imagine firing those people would help things out. AFAIK there's no such thing has the "reverse mythical man month" - removing people from a late running project speeds it up.

There's definitely cases where removing a person from a project speeds it up. Just to name a few: * the person removed is a distraction to the team in some way, possibly outside of their control * the team is over the two-pizza limit, and coordination costs are out of control * roles between individuals aren't clear, and removing one of them makes it obvious, removing a source of confusion [edit: added some examples]

> the two-pizza limit

OT, but can someone please explain this to me?

From what I understand this is a team size that you can still feed with two pizzas. But how is this different from just saying "the two-person limit"?

When I'm with friends, we order one pizza per person. On occasion, when I haven't eaten a lot during the day, I've ordered two pizzas just for myself. And I'm a regular sized Dutch guy, so not one of those stereotypical Americans that can win eating contests.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#364
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go, short the stock. You will make a killing.

Even if this was correct thesis you could still lose money on a solid trade idea. Trading is not easy. Plenty of folks were correct on a 2007 market top ... they still managed to lose money ... because they were too early among other things.

...and empty talk is cheap.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about comparing Teslas before Autopilot to Teslas after Autopilot? > ODI analyzed mileage and airbag deployment data supplied by Tesla for all MY 2014 through 2016 Model S and 2016 Model X vehicles equipped with the Autopilot Technology Package... The data show that the Tesla vehicles crash rate dropped by almost 40 percent after Autosteer installation. https://www.scribd.com/document/337008436/NHTSA-Full-Report-…

Those stats aren't for autosteer (which is the point of contention) alone, and include AEB which no doubt saves lives. This brings me to a crucial point. Nobody doubts that assistive technology save lives. Not just automatic emergency braking, but even lane keeping assists. What Tesla does is however take lane keeping assist and give it more responsibility of actively driving the car. It's not clear if that is safe.…

> Those stats aren't for autosteer (which is the point of contention) alone, and include AEB which no doubt saves lives.

What are you basing this on? AEB was available before Autosteer, and it says in the report that the 40% improvement was after Autosteer installation.

> What Tesla does is however take lane keeping assist and give it more responsibility of actively driving the car.

Autosteer specifically is new, but the precedent for "active control" isn't. TACC takes just as active a role in driving a car as Autosteer, and most people feel it is net helpful (regardless of manufacturer, but especially in Tesla's case because it can see things via radar that a human cannot, e.g. a second car ahead slamming on the brakes). Heck, a lot of people think even standard cruise control is net helpful! It's not clear to me why longitudinal control is okay to do actively but latitudinal control isn't; both require attention and vigilance. My belief is that people are more skeptical of active latitudinal control because it is so new. It's understandable, but it's not an intellectually satisfying reason to hold back the technology.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#366
post #363
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely cases where removing a person from a project speeds it up. Just to name a few: * the person removed is a distraction to the team in some way, possibly outside of their control * the team is over the two-pizza limit, and coordination costs are out of control * roles between individuals aren't clear, and removing one of them makes it obvious, removing a source of confusion [edit: added some examples]

> the two-pizza limit OT, but can someone please explain this to me? From what I understand this is a team size that you can still feed with two pizzas. But how is this different from just saying "the two-person limit"? When I'm with friends, we order one pizza per person. On occasion, when I haven't eaten a lot during the day, I've ordered two pizzas just for myself. And I'm a regular sized Dutch guy, so not one of…

Perhaps you have smaller pizzas than in America? Most people I know could not eat a whole pizza here in America. The two pizza limit is supposed to be more like eight people.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about comparing Teslas before Autopilot to Teslas after Autopilot? > ODI analyzed mileage and airbag deployment data supplied by Tesla for all MY 2014 through 2016 Model S and 2016 Model X vehicles equipped with the Autopilot Technology Package... The data show that the Tesla vehicles crash rate dropped by almost 40 percent after Autosteer installation. https://www.scribd.com/document/337008436/NHTSA-Full-Report-…

Because that data isn't limited to just Autosteer but also includes Autobreaking and the other safety features which are more likely to have played a role in the accident reduction. There's no evidence that Autosteer has saved any lives, but there is evidence that it's taken at least 4.

> Because that data isn't limited to just Autosteer but also includes Autobreaking and the other safety features which are more likely to have played a role in the accident reduction.

See my response to your sibling comment. AEB was available earlier than Autosteer, and it says in multiple places (both in the summary and in the graph) that the 40% figure is since the release of Autosteer. If I am misunderstanding or misreading the report, please tell me.

> There's no evidence that Autosteer has saved any lives, but there is evidence that it's taken at least 4.

That's not an accurate summary of the evidence. There are reports all over reddit, TMC, Twitter, Electrek, etc. of Autopilot preventing accidents. There are accounts of Autosteer in particular swerving when a truck drifts toward a car. If we're going to consider one-off anecdotes that go badly, we have to consider the ones that go well, too. And there's a lot of confirmation bias to fight to do that, because "Car Doesn't Crash And Erupt Into Flames" is not a headline you will ever read.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#368
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford also has $222 billion in liabilities

Note that enterprise value takes into account liabilities. Which is why I mentioned it. Also note that of Tesla's $28 Billion in assets, Tesla has $24-billion in liabilities. So the company is overall +$4 Billion in assets, while Ford is +$35 Billion in assets. So Ford is 9x bigger than Tesla by assets, and is also 9x bigger by (Assets - Liabilities). In either case, the metric suggests that Ford should be bigger tha…

I personally just want transition to electric cars to happen faster so my small investment in TSLA I pretty much consider to be a charitable donation to a worthy cause :).

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#369

Just reading the first few comments.... I really don't get the Tesla hate. Is it hacker-ish contrarianism? Have they done something? What's the deal HN, why are we cheering against the home team? Overall Musk has been pretty straightforward and explicit with what he's doing. Tesla (and spacex) set extremely ambitious goals, like none of their competitors do. They take big risks. They're not interested in reducing ris…

> Seriously, what has he done to deserve this negativity?

Interesting isn't it? It's almost like someone turned on a switch and suddenly there is rampant anti-elon musk sentiment. What has elon musk done recently?

Well, he went after the biased media.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1000560049389907969?lang...

and the "journalists" have been waging a war against him. There is a ridiculous amount of news industry workers here ( one of the reasons for the rampant censorship here and on other social media sites is to accommodate the news industry ). The news companies have social media teams pushing their narrative all over social media along with their third party affiliates and ngos.

The media's current punching bag is zuckerburg ( hence the nonstop facebook stories here ). But zuckerburg is giving in to the media, so I suspect the new punching bag will be elon musk.

Expect a lot of negative stories, comments and threads about tesla and elon musk going forward. At least until musk apologizes or gives in to the media.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was approached by a Tesla contractor in Home Depot on a few days ago. It was honestly not a good experience. For one, I was approached cold. I too had no idea that they had this agreement, so I was looking at something when someone came up and asked me something like "what type of project are you working on?" So I naturally just described what I was doing and before realizing this was not a HD employee. He asks me…

I still can't believe retail establishments think it's a good idea to degrade the customer experience by letting third-party salespeople rove their stores. I know Home Depot et al are making money from it, but I can't imagine there are many customers coming away with positive feelings from these come-ons.

It seems to be a largely Home Depot thing, they seem to regularly have someone trying to sell me satellite television service in the stores here in Indy while Lowes has never had any such thing that I've seen.
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