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Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

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131–140 of 396 posts

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#131
post #40

Tesla and SpaceX are businesses and I never understood the public fandom behind them and Elon Musk. 3,500+ people losing their jobs is pretty significant for a leader who touts altruism as one of his top motivators.

It also speaks of a colossal failure in management. Either they were way off the mark in their hiring, or in performance management, or they have unreasonable expectations of their employees. If you are smart at hiring good people, there no way that 9% of them are producing negative value.

Not necessarily. Could be a function of the need to scale very quickly, which invariably allows some mediocre people to slip in. A 9% cut sounds reasonable given how fast and how much Tesla needed to scale up in the first place.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#132
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you missing a "/s"? Or do you mean that they are preparing for another round of funding and want to improve their valuation?

It is the usual snark that dominates any discussion of Tesla. There's so much snark in these threads, it becomes hard to detect.

Yea, I just abandoned the thread altogether at this point. Might even be Tesla shills - don't know

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#133

Somewhere along the way I have come to appreciate that as a society we need to optimize better for psychological, financial and physical wellbeing of people prioritized by proximity: employees, community, humanity. It will definitely slow down innovation. We might go to Mars 20yrs late, no self driving cars for 10 more yrs, walk around the city some more before electric scooter land etc. Of course it is in conflict w…

Have you considered moving to Europe?

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#134
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it imprecise? I can make claims about my worldview. I say the sky is blue. you say the sky is white (cloudy). we can argue about it, but there's no reason for either of us to change our opinion till we look out the window and see what color the sky is. The problem with your standard of saying nothing is illegal till a court rules on it, is we require someone accuse another to trigger the court determination of fac…

>> The problem with your standard of saying nothing is illegal till a court rules on it, is we require someone accuse another to trigger the court determination of fact. As someone who is involved in multiple IP lawsuits and one other major civil matter, this is exactly how it works. I don't claim people are doing illegal things. I am filing lawsuits against them alleging improper behavior and I let the courts do the…

Certain contexts DO allow Laymen authority to determine the legality of things. Juries and voting come immediately to mind.

Conversationally, saying "I think this is illegal" instead of "this is illegal" freely surrenders to those who disagree with you to use appeals to authority to bypass conversation without addressing what you said. I think this is a bad strategy if you're levying a case in the e-court of e-opinions.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#135
Just reading the first few comments.... I really don't get the Tesla hate. Is it hacker-ish contrarianism? Have they done something? What's the deal HN, why are we cheering against the home team?

Overall Musk has been pretty straightforward and explicit with what he's doing.

Tesla (and spacex) set extremely ambitious goals, like none of their competitors do. They take big risks. They're not interested in reducing risk. They're interested in a business plan that leads to a mass migration of icbs to electric (or humans to mars). The nature of ambitious goals is that sometimes you don't hit your marks. The nature of risk taking is that you might fail, and have to do fast paced adjustments to recover.

Riskiness also means (literally) that Tesla comes with some chance of total failure. If they lose two or three big bets in a row, it could be game over. There are no cash cows or guaranteed income streams. Tesla is not Toyota or Microsoft. If you own Tesla, you need to be ok with that risk. Don't like it? Perfectly reasonable. Sell.

Personally (not an investor or customer), I think these companies are awesome. If GM disappeared tomorrow, nothing that I care about changes. If Tesla disappears, this could set back electric cars by 5yrs. If McDonald Douglass rocketry disappears, someone else will launch rockets for the US military. SpaceX... that hurts our chances of landing people on the other worlds anytime soon.

None of this risk profile stuff would even be controversial if Tesla was a fund. A fund manager can be as risky as she likes, provided that's the stated investment goal. Why doesn't Elon get this amount of rope? .. at least on hacker news?

Seriously, what has he done to deserve this negativity?

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#136

Friendly PSA: always negotiate severance. Companies can always be forced to restructure like this or even just choose to on a whim. Pressure from the board, hiring a new CTO who wants to bring in his or her own people, etc. etc. Always make sure you are happy with what type of offsetting compensation you’ll receive in this eventuality before taking the job, and consider it a huge timesaver if an employer passes on yo…

In general, "at will" employees don't have anything to negotiate. It's strictly take it or leave it. There are no contracts unless the CEO gets involved, and the CEO won't be getting involved just for you. The hiring manager will just pass on you and move to the next-best candidate.

You negotiate your starting salary, and that's it. So make sure you account for the likelihood that you will get zero notice and zero severance when you get fired. Which is to say you need to ask for more money, and save some of it in high-liquidity, low-risk form.

People wonder about salary inflation, but when you look at total compensation, it isn't quite so extreme. Companies cut or eliminate benefits, and employees have to demand higher salary to compensate. The salaries are going up at a higher than usual rate, because companies are slashing benefits packages faster than usual.

Those companies are figuring out the hard way that employees are not clueless about the value of their benefits. New employee candidates coming in will see the crap benefits and ask for more money. Existing employees will leave for either benefits more similar to what they once had, or for more money. In general, cutting the benefits results in being less competitive overall as an employer, because it usually costs less for a company to buy the benefits in bulk, than for employees to buy them piecemeal.

In the case of severance, the major advantage for the company doing it is that you absolutely cannot spend that money on anything else until you are fired. You could get that by buying a special insurance policy for unplanned unemployment, or you can discipline yourself to never touch your "severance fund" except in dire emergency. Also, you are taxed on a severance payment in a year when you otherwise have less income, because you got fired, whereas a personal "severance fund" is taxed as you earn the principal, and again when you liquidate, if you realized gains. Make sure the company will be paying for all that before you start work, because once you start, most of your leverage disappears. They no longer need to convince you to quit your previous job, and only need to do just enough to keep you from quitting your new one.

The last severance I got was in 2002. No company since has ever been willing to pay it out or even negotiate the possibility. Severance is dead. Long live the personal "oh shit" fund. Make your employer pay you enough to have one, along with a personal retirement fund, a personal vacation fund, a personal health care fund, a personal commuting budget, and personal equivalents of all those other things that many companies once paid for, but no longer do.

We don't need a union, if everybody can individually commit to asking for more money.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#137
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the company has been operating in the red forever. He is bowing to the public markets to make the company's life easier. It was never going to die if he kept these employees.

Those same public markets were recently trading at 87-88 cents on the dollar. (See http://markets.businessinsider.com/bonds/tesla_incdl-notes_2... for verification.) If the markets were assuming that they would recover half of what was owed in bankruptcy, that corresponds to about 1/4 odds of bankruptcy in the next few years. Given that historically markets have been more accurate than any individual commenter, the r…

Sorry, to clarify I am talking equity. Please provide examples now.

The snark in this thread is unbelievable.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#138
post #19

This is definitely the move of a company in the process of scaling up production of their mass market vehicle that their valuation hinges on. Definitely not about managing cash flow.

Go, short the stock. You will make a killing.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#139
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you missing a "/s"? Or do you mean that they are preparing for another round of funding and want to improve their valuation?

It is the usual snark that dominates any discussion of Tesla. There's so much snark in these threads, it becomes hard to detect.

Text-based speech has always had a hard time conveying emotion. No need to feel bad about not detecting sarcasm here, we're probably all oblivious to an extent.

Re: Tesla is laying off ‘about 9%’ of its workforce as it ‘restructures’ the company

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering demand for product is outstripping their ability to produce product, their sales & marketing teams are setting a high standard of work the rest of the company has yet to meet. Feels a little unfair if they were the ones getting axed.

Or maybe they aren't needed at all? Most people I know that want a Tesla have wanted one forever and weren't really coerced into it by sales and marketing.

They may not have had a sales guy come knocking on their front door, but if you think they weren’t marketed to, then Tesla did an excellent job of marketing.
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