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Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

independent.co.uk

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Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#181

Post by taneq »

bernardino wrote: post #168
pmoriarty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet" Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to questi…

> A lot of people feel threatened by that, so they try to push it away, lock it up, turn it off, or dismiss it. You hit the nail right on the head. It reminds me about how we want and need security, particularly around our beliefs. What I think is true in that regard is what Adyashanti, a spiritual teacher, once noted: "The magical part is that the more you let go, the better it feels. The more you step into insecuri…

I've always felt that this philosophy, and others like it, ultimately boil down to "you're going to lose no matter what, so try not to care about the game."

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#182

Post by s-shellfish »

psyc wrote: post #177
cyberpip wrote: post #64

Lately, all this media attention to psychedelics reminds me of this Terence McKenna quote: "[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet I cannot understand because I don’t know what news you were waiting for, but this is the news that I was waiting for. It’s an incredible challenge to human understanding to try and make sense of this." from https://www.asktmk.com/talks/Rap+Dan…

Psychedelics punch through the big illusion, as in maya. They give the game away. I feel people are subconsciously and collectively terrified of this.

Is it at all possible to explain this to a sober person? One who is neither consciously nor subconsciously afraid of having the illusion removed?

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#183

Post by maxerickson »

cyberpip wrote: post #100
pmoriarty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet" Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to questi…

Another Terence McKenna quote I'm reminded of! "The British enzymologist, J. B. S. Haldane in the 1920s, in an essay, said, "The universe may not only be stranger than we suppose; it may be stranger than we can suppose," and I suggest to you that as we look back over human history, every pinnacle of civilizationf whether it be Mayan or Greco-Roman or Song dynasty, has believed that it was in possession of an accurate…

None of the earlier ones had lasers though.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#184

Post by tranchms »

zug_zug wrote: post #174
tranchms wrote: post #165

I recommend reading the LSD Clincial Handbook: https://www.maps.org/resources/responding_to_difficult_psych... LSD changed my life, and continues to do so. If you live in California, check out MAPS and Psychedelic Seminars. I’m a huge advocate because I have experienced first hand the profound transformation that occurs as a result of a psychedelic experience.

Not to negate this anecdote, but just to point out your mileage may vary. The research on this subject is still in its infancy. I know a lot of people are looking for that "magic-bullet" panacea for all their small woes (social anxiety, minor depression, etc) and have tried everything under the sun (exercise, all kinds of diets, all kinds of books). It's been my experience with the people I knew personally who did ac…

I hear ya. My anecdote is unique. If I provided more context, and told you my life story, it might make better sense. And it’s impossible to assign responsibility solely to psychedelics, but after years of hospitalizations and addictions and depression and suicidal attempts and witnessing a few friends suicides, there was a turning point in my life, and it conincided with my experimentation of LSD and mushrooms, something I only put together years later in hindsight.

I think the psychedelics nurture the ability to recognize that feelings and narratives are not representative of reality, that there are multiple realities bound up in which perspective you possess, or which one possesses you.

The ability to detach from self, to recognize a spectrum of truth, of perception, is one of the greatest benefits of psychedelic experiences.

I’ve used LSD for years off and on, and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve taken it. So many I lost count long ago. It’s a beautiful experience, and it helps me and everyone I share it with to this day.

I have friends who remark what a profound life changing experience it was for them years after our trip together, and it always catches me off guard. You never know how profound it affects a person. Sometimes it takes years to recognize the shift that took place.

Either way, I think there is so much promise. I’m a huge advocate, and I think people who struggle with mental health issues should definitely explore psychedelics (I would caution those with schizoid tendencies/ family histories). Anyone with anxiety, depression, addictions, compulsive thoughts... there is much promise there.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#185

Post by s-shellfish »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #69
nonbel wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"questioning why tuesdays exist" I don't see a problem with this line of questioning. There is lots interesting to consider there. Just some stream of thought: What does tuesday mean anyway, why do we have weeks, why 7 days per week, what is the exact definition of day, could there be planets without "days", do dogs recognize a weekly cycle, would they if "freerunning" without human companionship, what about wolves…

It’s incredibly mentally exhausting and you’ll miss several things that flag you as a comfortable human being in your own existence to others, thereby shortening your ability to function as a socially wholesome creature. (Note: I have an illness on the schizophrenia spectrum that works in a way requiring me to thoroughly examine fundamental aspects of reality. It is utterly exhausting.)

Some questions are purely abstract without any relation to self, personal identity, self image from others, affect on others as well as neither being interpretations of the past or predictions of the future.

I find those types of questions to be relaxing and interesting. As soon as I begin to connect those questions to either, their relation to my own awareness as a social being, that's when they become exhausting. That's because I stop thinking about the question as a pure question, and I begin believing I can know how both I and others think about it, in addition to any other number of details present (of which, not only are there thoughts to be had about how others think of those details, but how all of those thoughts will eventually influence how others think about all the minutia in addition to original thought, and how that will affect how you think eventually, and thinking about all of that - if you choose to, it doesn't end!).

When oneself thinks about how others think, oneself is still thinking about how oneself thinks. Not in the direct way, where oneself knows exactly how another thinks at a precise moment, but the thoughts oneself has about others influence the thoughts oneself has about oneself, eventually, even if you've thought all the thoughts you can besides the thoughts you've worked ridiculously hard to avoid, eventually oneself has to confront all the thoughts that remain, lest they prefer to just chant 'om'.

So gimme all the ridiculous, disconnected from reality problems you have. Because I absolutely loathe having to think about how my thoughts affect my thoughts and how my thoughts affect how others think their thoughts and how their thoughts affect their thoughts in the future and how those thoughts will eventually affect my thoughts. That's exhausting, you can't keep up with it. Even if you are right about how someone else thinks, they can always change how they think, for no reason besides they either know how you think, or they think they know you think they know how they think.

But otherwise. yea, I get that it seems like it can't be avoided. Because people seem to expect some degree of you thinking for them if they think for you, that's socially wholesome, I suppose. It's all absurd to me. Tuesdays.

Tuesdays are weird indeed.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#186

Post by wahern »

s-shellfish wrote: post #182
psyc wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychedelics punch through the big illusion, as in maya. They give the game away. I feel people are subconsciously and collectively terrified of this.

Is it at all possible to explain this to a sober person? One who is neither consciously nor subconsciously afraid of having the illusion removed?

It's no more possible to do that than for a schizophrenic to explain his delusion.

The difference between a psychedelic experience and mental delusion is that the former brings a newly found perspective on and (knowingly or unknowingly) appreciation for the "big illusion". The latter usually reflects a degenerative condition and the delusion may never end.

Both no doubt lead to fascinating experiences but they're intrinsically non-sense. There are tantalizing connections to be made that are _just_ out of grasp, and always will be.

As a child I once had a fever so high that Lego blocks began to fall from the ceiling and stack up around my bed. I ran out of the room before I could be crushed. Also as I child I learned how to lucid dream; only marginally less non-sensical, though at least there's the interplay between conscious thinking and the dream world. I've also befriend a few far-gone schizophrenics over the years; quite fascinating but, again, it's pointless to try to unpack the delusion. For me these personal and recounted experiences _reinforce_ my appreciation for the "big illusion".

What bothers me about people who promote psychedelics is that they ignore the utter fragility of the human mind. Most people will come back from their experience but in others it can instigate or hasten mental decline (e.g. schizophrenia, psychological dependency). That may or may not have happened regardless, but if you want to promote self-knowledge, IMO the most important thing to _know_ is how precious and fragile the "big illusion" is, and maybe lead with that.

It's sort of like promoting fasting by exclaiming that hunger is awesome. I don't think starving people think hunger is awesome. Fasting isn't a way to learn that hunger is an illusion; it's a way to appreciate what you have and your relationship to it. (I've also experimented with fasting.)

I've never taken psychedelics and wouldn't do it recreationally because, frankly, I'm too scared. And it's unnecessary. More power to people who do but it'd be nice if they were less flippant about it.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#187

Post by nonbel »

godelski wrote: post #173
nonbel wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Yes, but answers are also reasonably found You just picked the easiest questions and left out the rest... >"the person that discussed the historical reasoning and mythos that led to the naming of Tuesday and why having a seven day week is so pervasive throughout the world, leading back to ancients looking up at the sky (which was better than what most of us see, considering light pollution)." You should question th…

> You just picked the easiest questions and left out the rest... You were just saying you shouldn't directly trust people and I'm saying you should also dig. You asked a lot of questions, I don't have the answer to all of them, but somebody might. And that's why I say dig. Somebody might have already done the work. I for one am not omniscient, don't just counter everyone with "well you don't know everything", it isn'…

Sure, I guess I don't understand why someone would only question without searching out answers... but you should dig, then dig further, then dig some more.

I mean there have been too many times when I learned about a topic (eg historical event) from one source and internalized it, but then another source that focused on different details (not even conflicting details) told an entirely different story.

Regarding the bible passage. I just cannot imagine a mindset that fails to make the connection between the sun and the source of light, so what in the world does that passage mean? Perhaps its just another bad translation (another way to totally change a story).

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#188

Post by naasking »

dqpb wrote: post #136
sakopov wrote: post #135

I don't know how legitimate these stories are, but some folks swear that they've gotten rid of various addictions after their trips on Ayahuasca. This is apparently a mixture of plants that some tribes in South America have been using for self-medication for ages.

Yeah, let's take medical advice from ancient intoxicated tribesmen. That will work out great.

How's that aspirin working out for you?

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#189

Post by drvdevd »

s-shellfish wrote: post #182
psyc wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychedelics punch through the big illusion, as in maya. They give the game away. I feel people are subconsciously and collectively terrified of this.

Is it at all possible to explain this to a sober person? One who is neither consciously nor subconsciously afraid of having the illusion removed?

Psychedelics produce their effects by modulating certain receptors in the brain and body so as to alter perception until they are broken down through metabolism.

We don’t yet fully understand exactly how these alterations work objectively. But they do suggest that our subjective constructions of reality are just that: constructions.

So the only illusion to lose is the entire nature of reality: in some sense there is more than one “reality”, as far as your brain is concerned.

I think this is the sober, science backed version of this notion and I think it is profound.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#190

Post by yosito »

cyberpip wrote: post #100
pmoriarty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet" Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to questi…

Another Terence McKenna quote I'm reminded of! "The British enzymologist, J. B. S. Haldane in the 1920s, in an essay, said, "The universe may not only be stranger than we suppose; it may be stranger than we can suppose," and I suggest to you that as we look back over human history, every pinnacle of civilizationf whether it be Mayan or Greco-Roman or Song dynasty, has believed that it was in possession of an accurate…

Eh, I'm not saying we have a full picture of what's going on, but the scientific method is much more effective at helping us arrive at a real description of what is going on than any arbitrary religion of the past.
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