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Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

independent.co.uk

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Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#161

Post by mandelbrotwurst »

benbreen wrote: post #158
vanderZwan wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of the clinical supervision mentioned in the other comment, therapeutic dosage is probably much lower than the ones used to go on a trip (same is true for many other hypothetically abusable medication that is already being prescribed for a whole range of mental illnesses).

I've been reading Michael Pollan's new book on this ( How to Change Your Mind - really good read, incidentally) and according to him it's actually the opposite in some of the clinical trials he looked at. In the book he describes clinical settings that involve relatively large doses of psychedelics, primarily psilocybin but also DMT and LSD, because the goal is to induce "ego death" and/or a profound or mystical expe…

I am guessing that by "out into the world" you mean primarily into a human-made / urban / artificial built environment with other people in it, as opposed to out into the natural world (i.e. wilderness), which I think many would argue could be the most ideal setting for the types of experiences that you're discussing.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#162

Post by oldgeezr »

pmoriarty wrote: post #134
oldgeezr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have permanent visual disturbances and suffered long-term panic attacks and anxiety as a result of psychedelic use. Things got better over time, but not completely back to normal. I'm not advocating for the continuation of our current legal strategy, but I feel like these drugs need to come with strong cultural wisdom about their appropriate use and potential for abuse. Anyone who's been in a psychedelic community…

Are these people "fried" because they used those substances, or because of how they used them, or how they viewed, integrated (or not-integrated) their experiences? A visual distortion is a good example. When experiencing a visual distortion, it is possible to feel anxious about the appearance of such a distortion, or instead one could be indifferent to it, or even enjoy and welcome it. It need not be negative. More…

Visual disturbances affected my ability to read books for years. I am no longer a speed reader thanks to psychedelics. For years after my first big trip, walls breathed and floor tiles became 3d. It is hard to be indifferent to such things.

My set going into the trip was that I was expecting to have a great time with friends. I was young and very positive towards psychedelics. I did not have a 'bad trip'. The effects came later.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#163

Post by dokem »

kneel wrote: post #9

I've had great experiences with LSD, experiences that may have even changed my trajectory in life. That being said I would never recommend LSD to someone undergoing serious mental health issues. IMO not safe at all, you can really end up in a bad place.

I have to disagree with you here. Psychedelics help people - the idea that they should only be taken by individuals who are in a 'good' place is missing so much of the point IMO. I began experimenting with psychedelics during the darkest period of my life and it was absolutely the right decision. Yes, there are things that can go wrong - even to a 'healthy' mind. To those out there in all-encompassing pain and darkness - don't think that a trip will necessarily amplify your current mental state - I argue that psychs are a ladder to help you climb out of whatever hole has you trapped. FWIW I believe marijuana has a higher risk of throwing someone into nasty thought loops than psychedelics.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#164

Post by pmoriarty »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #75
collyw wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gyms are the most boring place to get exercise. Go out and enjoy nature, I am sure that will double the benefits of getting exercise if its in order to treat depression.

That's definitely true. I hike pretty regularly, I went hiking here just a few days ago: https://tinyurl.com/yd58grex However, you can really only do that between april and november here. There's four months of the year where going on any meaningful hike is absolutely only for people who are totally dedicated and have thousands of dollars of gear, plenty of experience and have been guided on that specific track durin…

So you have time to hike, but during the winter you don't because of poor weather conditions and lack of money to invest in good gear.

But then if you have that time, why not use it for bodyweight exercise at home?

It costs absolutely nothing, requires no equipment, and weather is not an issue. You could be getting quality exercise for free during the same time that you would have otherwise spent hiking.

If you're open to trying it, check out the bodyweight fitness sub on reddit[1] and their recommended routine[2].

[1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/

[2] - https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/kb/recommend...

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#165

Post by tranchms »

I recommend reading the LSD Clincial Handbook:

https://www.maps.org/resources/responding_to_difficult_psych...

LSD changed my life, and continues to do so.

If you live in California, check out MAPS and Psychedelic Seminars.

I’m a huge advocate because I have experienced first hand the profound transformation that occurs as a result of a psychedelic experience.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#166

Post by DenisM »

jdietrich wrote: post #151
jvandyke wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure (you can look it up as well as anyone), but from what I've heard (again, Pollan's book), controlled, randomized trials are very difficult if not impossible with psychedelics. It's obvious to both the patient and the observer who has received a placebo and who has not. That's part of the problem with studying this class of drugs, what we have considered the gold standard for clinical trials isn't effectiv…

>Study using psilocybin for smoking cessation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27441452 N = 15. I understand that there are a lot of regulatory obstacles to performing large-scale clinical trials into psychedelics, but the overall quality of the research so far is indifferent. A great number of ineffective and mediocre interventions have been made to look miraculous by a handful of small open-label trials. The ho…

> N = 15

Can you even judge the sample size separate from effect size?

If 15 out of 15 people register an improvement it's a lot more meaningful than 3 out of a 100 sample, despite the much larger sample size in the latter case.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#167

Post by eip »

scythe wrote: post #105
jvandyke wrote: post #27

I recommend reading "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan if you're all interested in the history and details of psychedelics. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y... Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that t…

The trouble is that talk therapy is already too expensive for most patients, and unless you plan to have people tripping with a therapist who is a complete stranger ( not advised! ) you're going to need to charge for some preliminary sessions. If a typical therapist charges $100 per hour -- and that's optimistic, in fact I've never paid less than $125 -- then the cost of treatment quickly runs into four figures. That…

It would be much cheaper and much more effective to talk to trees.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#168

Post by bernardino »

pmoriarty wrote: post #90
cyberpip wrote: post #64

Lately, all this media attention to psychedelics reminds me of this Terence McKenna quote: "[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet I cannot understand because I don’t know what news you were waiting for, but this is the news that I was waiting for. It’s an incredible challenge to human understanding to try and make sense of this." from https://www.asktmk.com/talks/Rap+Dan…

"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet" Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to questi…

> A lot of people feel threatened by that, so they try to push it away, lock it up, turn it off, or dismiss it.

You hit the nail right on the head.

It reminds me about how we want and need security, particularly around our beliefs. What I think is true in that regard is what Adyashanti, a spiritual teacher, once noted: "The magical part is that the more you let go, the better it feels. The more you step into insecurity, the more you notice how secure and safe it is. Where you just stepped out of was unsafe. Everyone is so miserable because they seek security in things that are limited and always moving and changing unpredictably."

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#169

Post by Sir_Substance »

pmoriarty wrote: post #164
Sir_Substance wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely true. I hike pretty regularly, I went hiking here just a few days ago: https://tinyurl.com/yd58grex However, you can really only do that between april and november here. There's four months of the year where going on any meaningful hike is absolutely only for people who are totally dedicated and have thousands of dollars of gear, plenty of experience and have been guided on that specific track durin…

So you have time to hike, but during the winter you don't because of poor weather conditions and lack of money to invest in good gear. But then if you have that time, why not use it for bodyweight exercise at home? It costs absolutely nothing, requires no equipment, and weather is not an issue. You could be getting quality exercise for free during the same time that you would have otherwise spent hiking. If you're op…

You don't need to sell it to me my friend. I walk around the city during the winter. Two layers, hat on, gloves on. It's nice, no one else is around because it's so cold, and the snow muffles all sound. Very peaceful, unless the wind is trying to remove your face.

What I'm arguing strongly against is the notion that exercise is a magical solution that can suit any lifestyle, any country and any economic situation. It's not been so long since I was working a job with a 2.5 hour commute each direction that I find it easy to listen to people with cozy and secure 9-5 jobs in lovely temperate latitudes condescendingly explain how there's no possible excuse for struggling to find time for regular exercise without calling them out on their shit. Offering better results-for-time options for mental health is not indulging the indolent.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#170

Post by User23 »

mancerayder wrote: post #137
DanBC wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone who thinks psychedelics are a shortcut or an easy way to do something But this is how the early experiments with ketamine are being described - as a near instant treatment that takes a couple of hours and lasts for months.

I've never had ketamine, but its status as a hypnotic and its use in surgery suggests it's something that numbs the mind. Psychedelics do the opposite, in a very extreme way. It's an intense experience where certain mental barriers disappear, some of which are crutches which are taken away. Some things become unforgettable. I highly recommend doing more research before pushing exercise as a more moral (or whatever, '…

You appear to have some kind of problem with morality.

I recommend ignoring such persons on the grounds that listening to them is likely to cause harm and unlikely to be beneficial.

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