What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17238225 and marked it off-topic.
Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
161–170 of 298 posts
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#162What use would this type of data be to the average consumer? Outside of the obvious question of ownership and argument of who owns the data - isn't this otherwise very similar to being in a plane crash and demanding the black box data? Surely the data, itself, isn't very helpful compared to the analysis of the data? Note: My question is in no way trying to argue against the consumer owning the data. I'm just wonderin…
You don't usually own the plane that crashed. Unless if you're Elon Musk of course.
I very specifically pointed out that my comparison to the aircraft was solely with regards to the data itself - and not around ownership.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think that analogy holds up. Maybe: does the typewriter manufacturer own meta data such as letter frequency, average work length, etc that their product calculates based on your usage?
No, of course not. Once money exchanged hands, it's not their product, it's mine, as is _all_ of its output, including logs, etc. Otherwise, I'd call it 'spyware'.
This already isn't the case in many instances where you don't actually "own" the thing, you just have a license to use it.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#164Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.
There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?
Does this mean that when I crash my Tesla into someone, Tesla is liable for it? After all, they did all the work of creating the car...
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#165Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#166Serious question, Can you get data from any other car manufacturer? I know ICE cars collect information but do you have access to it?
We use Metromile for our insurance and the tracker we plug in has access to that info which they make available in a simplified form in their app.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#167What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?
Ex-journo perspective: One of the reasons why you'll see a flood of negative news about a company is that once one well-reported piece comes out about potential wrongdoing, more reporters will take a look at a person/company to see if they can find something wrong. Negative reporting on Tesla, especially its labor practices, is nothing new. (See Caroline O'Donovan's work for Buzzfeed News.) Part of the reason for this is that investigative work takes time, and you have to know where to look. Barking up the wrong tree too much is costly and unproductive.
In addition, you'll often see more negative reporting come about after one story as people who have inside knowledge choose to share their stories after initial reporting. I had people reach out with additional information, unsolicited, to both my former colleagues and me following the publication of a piece. It's generally along the lines of "oh, you think that's bad, have a look at this."
All that happens because it's very rare to see isolated incidents of bad behavior inside an organization. When there's smoke, there's usually fire.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd like to go one step further and want the power to delete it, or be deleted, when I want. If I'm allowed to take the 5th to not incriminate myself and not reveal my memory (data in my head), I should be similarly allowed to delete my data when it is my data in my device. It'd be an interesting case to take to the Supreme Court.
If you wrote it down in a journal then you no longer have the right to claim 5th amendment privileges on what was written. Why would it be the case that what you put into your smart phone is more protected than what you write in a book? http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...
Excellent, that is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for and it seems the link you mentioned above almost directly applies.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#169What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?
as an amateur Musk-mythologist, I would guess something we can't see is going on behind the scenes. Since around the time he started dating Grimes, Elon's general tone has gotten more combative. Whether he's deliberately courting bad press or it's a byproduct of something else isn't clear to me, but I would hazard a guess that it's part of something larger.
Part of why I find the Elon Musk story so fascinating is because we're seeing in real time how the 'great man' and 'great forces' narratives of history can both be applied as filters to understand what's going on. I would think the flood of bad press is better explained by the 'great forces' filter, but I don't understand that filter intuitively enough to usefully speculate what's changed.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#170So this is something that has always kind of bugged me about Tesla. If you have an accident, they are more than happy to drop the crash data "proving" that you were at fault, look at the recent stories about running into a road barrier and the back of a firetruck for recent examples of this. And, of course, they don't ask you first if they can release it. However, if you want the data, you can't have it… you have to…
Accompanying this tight information control your Tesla can only be repaired at a Tesla dealership, with tight control over parts and labor prices. https://gas2.org/2015/01/06/this-is-what-30000-of-damage-loo... and lots of forum posts out there on this
Yeah, Tesla is as guilty as anyone as pushing forward the destruction of the concept of owning the stuff you buy.