Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

consumeraffairs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 298 posts

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#121

Post by MisterTea »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #70
MisterTea wrote: post #42

Can we please go back to selling physical things instead of EULAs? If I bought the car it's mine along with all the data I generate while inside of MY vehicle. This is why I will not buy newer computer filled vehicles; they don't belong to you anymore.

Welcome to the next stage of the economy - now that we've created products for almost all daily needs, it's time to turn them into services. sigh . I'm with you and 'adrianN on this. I hate this direction and wish we could turn it back somewhat, or at least cover for the negative aspects of servicization of products. Regulation might be a necessary tool for that.

It's starting to become maddening when you look around you and realize that in a few short years everything is shifting to SaaS. The part that really bothers me is it feels degrading in the sense that you are not allowed to control your own property anymore. This is when technology becomes oppressive.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#122

Post by [deleted] »

danso wrote: post #118
toomuchtodo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article [+] explains it pretty succinctly, with as little bias as possible (TL;DR Tesla is the most shorted stock in the US, while also endangering entrenched interests). [+] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/29/1767826/-The-War-... EDIT: below content moved up to this comment from danso reply in order to be more concise as well as to keep signal to post ratio high: I do my best to provide non-biased sourc…

> Step up Reveal, an “independent journalism organization” to start “reporting” on Tesla. Quotation marks are normally considered to denote sarcasm, and boy do I ever mean it. Sounds like an article committed to defending Tesla. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but "with as little bias as possible" is debatable.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#124

Post by vkou »

Symmetry wrote: post #91
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be clear what you mean by voluntary. I agree that preventing a person to choose to sell something they own is a restriction on their freedom. But problems arise when the negotiation of that exchange is unilateral, relegated to EULAs and contracts which are incomprehensible, non-negotiable, and mandatory to purchase the product, and performed in a less-than-perfectly-efficient market. It would be one thing if I could…

I'd be fine if the only way to get a Tesla was to deliberately sign over your rights to the data. But nobody reads the EULA and the vast majority of consumers have no idea that this is something they're agreeing to. I'd really like for us as a society to rethink how consumer consent could work in a way that doesn't require everyone to be a lawyer. But given that most of the rules around this have been constructed imp…

What about used car sales? Are you now unable to sell your car, unless the buyer agrees to the TOS?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#125

Post by gm-conspiracy »

adrianN wrote: post #2

Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.

So, if you have a DSLR camera on a tripod set to a timer, and you do not actually take the picture, you have no claim to copyright of that image, even though the device you owned created it?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#126

Post by smt88 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #112
ASalazarMX wrote: post #110

What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?

This article [+] explains it pretty succinctly, with as little bias as possible (TL;DR Tesla is the most shorted stock in the US, while also endangering entrenched interests). [+] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/29/1767826/-The-War-... EDIT: below content moved up to this comment from danso reply in order to be more concise as well as to keep signal to post ratio high: I do my best to provide non-biased sourc…

Tesla has also been on a long over-hype, under-deliver streak that understandably makes people want to criticize them.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#127

Post by kofejnik »

cblades wrote: post #103
kofejnik wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's my device that creates the data, so it is mine. Otherwise, does the typewriter manufacturer own the stories you type?

I don't think that analogy holds up. Maybe: does the typewriter manufacturer own meta data such as letter frequency, average work length, etc that their product calculates based on your usage?

No, of course not.

Once money exchanged hands, it's not their product, it's mine, as is _all_ of its output, including logs, etc.

Otherwise, I'd call it 'spyware'.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#128

Post by arghwhat »

robrenaud wrote: post #36

This is a bunch of PR nonsense. > When asked why Tesla has an apparent policy requiring drivers who want their own data to file for a subpoena, a spokesperson framed it as a privacy issue. > “We handle all customer data in accordance with our Owner’s Manual and privacy policy, which clearly outlines the type of data we collect and the lengths that we go to protect a customers’ privacy in the process,” Tesla said via…

Ah, how wonderful that the GDPR is now in place, making this as easy as issuing a subject access request.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#129

Post by kinsomo »

jimmaswell wrote: post #86
adrianN wrote: post #2

Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.

There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?

> There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?

That's BS. The real justification for anyone having that right is that 1) the data is about them and 2) they own the machine that collected/created the data.

> The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?

They did the work of creating a device for sale. After the sale, their rights to the device end and the data should be owned by the new owner.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#130

Post by smt88 »

danso wrote: post #117
ASalazarMX wrote: post #110

What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?

Are all the anti-FB stories a campaign to short FB stock?

I'm long on Facebook and wholeheartedly share the anti-FB sentiment that's prevalent among people who value privacy, democracy, and facts.

In my opinion, the company needs what Uber got: a radical leadership change. It may tank the stock for a few quarters, but it'll make the company stronger in the long-run.

Post reply on HN