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Apple introduces macOS Mojave

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Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#271

Post by obl »

yulaow wrote: post #227
jblow wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good riddance. OpenGL has been an awful API for many years now. The drivers are way too complicated, and applications don’t have enough control to deliver smooth performance. All OpenGL does now is let you kind of mediocrily put things on the screen.

It would be a good riddance IF there was another universal API (Vulkan) and they would adopt it in substitution. The fact they want to force game developers to use instead Metal is... ridiculous, especially considering the extremely low macos marketshare, particularly outside US.

Sometimes at work I daydream about this alternate reality where we let go of the idea of an universal API on top GPUs and just let vendors publish some ISA and hardware-specific libs/drivers/docs. I'm sure people would figure out nice (and less nice) abstract libraries on their own just as well.

It's so frustrating to read what the GPU is actually capable of (for example in the intel PRMs) and to know that there is absolutely no way to get the driver's compiler to do the right thing in a reliable way.

I mean imagine if icc was the only x86 compiler.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#272

Post by always_good »

janlukacs wrote: post #50
wlesieutre wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decent apps in the actual native store is what the UIKit port is about. It’s not iOS apps on the Mac any more than tvOS apps are iOS apps on the TV. You still need to adapt it to native UI conventions like the menu bar, you just won’t need to rebuild the entire UI from the ground up in AppKit anymore.

Let me put it another way, when was the last time you heard a user ask for an iOS app to be on the Mac? Is this what Mac users want or is it something that Apple wants?

>when was the last time you heard a user ask for an iOS app to be on the Mac

This is something pretty much everyone I know wants that has had both a Mac and iPhone.

There are great iPhone apps and they usually don't have a Mac version. You're stuck whipping out your phone to use some app even though you're already using your laptop.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#273

Post by LolWolf »

Tehchops wrote: post #127
MrBingley wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And OpenCL too. This is terrible. I was thinking about adding GPU support to a numerical simulator I am working on, and I was planning to have nice cross-platform support with OpenCL. Whelp, that's no longer the case. My code is in C++, and I refuse to use proprietary, vendor-locked, Objective-C-only Metal. If people want GPU support, they'll just have to use Linux, which doesn't artificially constrain you with corpo…

Aren't most people running those kinds of workloads doing so on Linux already? Doesn't seem cost-effective at scale to run on beefy Apple machines.

I mean, if you're already running decent code or already have extremely good tooling where small examples can be easily sent to other machines. Additionally, debugging code running on other machines is also a huge pain in the ass vs. being able to step through it directly, locally.

Almost all of my (and my lab's) time is spent tinkering with small numerical examples before sending it off to one of the lab machines to run overnight, and using the GPU on the MBP through OpenCL is a huge advantage.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#274

Post by s73v3r_ »

shurcooL wrote: post #240
ggregoire wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean for games like League of Legends running on OpenGL? ( https://engineering.riotgames.com/news/trip-down-lol-graphic... )

Riot probably has enough resources to pay its developers to target Metal on macOS by the time OpenGL is removed (some number of years from now). It’s the smaller scale developers and projects that might not have have such ability.

The smaller scale ones are generally using an existing engine like Unity or Unreal, which handles Metal support.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#275

Post by Lio »

Clubber wrote: post #90
milhous wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Press Release under "Availability" "macOS Mojave will be available this fall as a free software update for Macs introduced in mid-2012 or later, plus 2010 and 2012 Mac Pro models with recommended Metal-capable graphics cards." Looks like it's the end of the road for my 2010 Mac mini running High Sierra. So long as Photos and Photo Stream continue to work, I'm not complaining. It was a good run.

Check ebay. I recently bought a 2013 Mac Pro off ebay for a good price. My 2009 Mac Pro was no longer supported. I figure the 2013s will probably have another 5 years after whatever new model they come out with next year.

I’m pretty sure there’s a way to upgrade the firmware on 2009 Mac Pro to keep it going.

Can’t quite remember the details but I think it’s even possible to bring it up to 2012 spec which will be supported in Mojave.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#276

Post by dabockster »

engi_nerd wrote: post #112
jcfrei wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always interesting to see the divergence between HN and what the average user cares about. For most people emojis (and animojis) have opened a whole new way to communicate with each other. I can't think of another linguistic feature in history which saw such widespread use within a decade and I feel like emojis don't get enough credit for that.

How is an emoji a whole new way to communicate? EDIT: I meant this as a genuine question, not as a "how could you possibly think this" response.

I think emojis are better at conveying emotion than straight text, since emotion is a very visual in-the-moment thing.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#279

Post by matthew-wegner »

shurcooL wrote: post #240
ggregoire wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean for games like League of Legends running on OpenGL? ( https://engineering.riotgames.com/news/trip-down-lol-graphic... )

Riot probably has enough resources to pay its developers to target Metal on macOS by the time OpenGL is removed (some number of years from now). It’s the smaller scale developers and projects that might not have have such ability.

Certainly has enough resources. Their 2015 revenue estimate was $1.6 billion. 2,500 employees in 2017.

(Not intending to nitpick--just pointing out that Riot is a LOT bigger than many folks realize)

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#280

Post by PascLeRasc »

milhous wrote: post #34
forgotmypw wrote: post #4

Does anyone know where the hardware support is listed?

From the Press Release under "Availability" "macOS Mojave will be available this fall as a free software update for Macs introduced in mid-2012 or later, plus 2010 and 2012 Mac Pro models with recommended Metal-capable graphics cards." Looks like it's the end of the road for my 2010 Mac mini running High Sierra. So long as Photos and Photo Stream continue to work, I'm not complaining. It was a good run.

There will likely be hacks like DosDude's Sierra patch [1]. 7 years of updates is still quite a lot, and I'm sure your Mac Mini will still be useful past its 10th birthday.

[1] http://dosdude1.com/sierrapatch.html

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