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College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

nytimes.com

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Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#391

Post by scarface74 »

aarongough wrote: post #123
awalton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably a good thing, since it will slowly beat into the minds of upper-levels at corps and recruiters that a College Degree shouldn't be the minimum bar applicants need to reach, and maybe some of these companies will start removing the "has degree" band reject filter.

I don't have a degree and honestly have never had any issues with recruiters or interviews for intermediate/senior 'software engineering' positions. I never represent myself as having a degree, but I don't go out of my way to point out my lack of degree either. Never once in an interview have I been asked about my education. One nice thing about software development positions is the interview process tends to be meri…

I can't honestly think that anyone cares that I got a degree in 1996. For my current job he was more concerned about my AWS certs....

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#392

Post by millermp12 »

msluyter wrote: post #176

Brian Caplan's recent book, "The Case Against Education," is relevant here. His basic premise is that college is mostly signaling game that represents a net burden on society. (Ie, the time/resources collectively spent jumping through hoops to get degrees could be put to better use.)

Also Robin Hanson's elephant in the brain

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#393

Post by optimuspaul »

jellicle wrote: post #59
optimuspaul wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still many colleges that you cost less than a years salary. Other than that nitpick I agree. Economics aside I think that college doesn't actually prepare people for working in the real world. But the only thing that really does that is actually working in the real world.

I think previous commenter is saying every year of full-time college costs you a year of salary, in addition and on top of any tuition or other expenses it may cost you. Few students manage to work full-time and make real progress towards a degree.

I get that and I think that with that very narrow definition of college experience that may be true. But I don't think that is the the college experience that the majority is taking part in. I also think it is insulting to suggest that a student who works full-time is not making real progress towards a degree. I worked full-time and made real progress, although I eventually quit because I realized I didn't need a degree. It's is meaningless. The only thing a degree proves is that the person was able to sit through some lectures and doing some rote work. But this is all anecdotal and therefore not really valuable for proving any useful point.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#394

Post by optimuspaul »

Bekwnn wrote: post #76
jellicle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think previous commenter is saying every year of full-time college costs you a year of salary, in addition and on top of any tuition or other expenses it may cost you. Few students manage to work full-time and make real progress towards a degree.

Not to mention if they're working fulltime they're forfeiting a large part of the value of the degree. Half or more of the value I got from my degree involved out of class activities.

It all depends on the type of college that you go to. I also think it's funny to suggest that a "large part of the value of the degree" is out of class activities. But if that is true it kind of supports my argument that a degree proves nothing. A degree doesn't reflect those out of class activities.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#395

Post by Nav_Panel »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #384
Nav_Panel wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few ways I could reply to this comment. 1. I could try and attack the evidence, by linking studies such as http://digitalcommons.sacredheart.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?ar... which found that conscientiousness is better correlated with grades (a proxy for job performance) than SAT score (a proxy for IQ), but that's not a very strong claim considering all the proxy measures involved (and it still does show tha…

If we're going to have a discussion about ending the requirement for a college degree or other seemingly arbitrary job requirements we have to understand why companies seek those things. The answer is that companies want to hire smart workers. It's fine to suggest that the degree requirement is wasteful, but I don't think we can expect employers to stop using that metric if we can't offer a better one. IQ is already…

I didn't mention anything about "ending the requirement for a college degree", my claim was that IQ does matter but other features matter just as much, and a college degree turns out to be a solid proxy for _many_ of those features.

I also did not claim that the IQ test itself was biased. I'm not quite certain which of my claims you're responding to.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#396

Post by treebeard901 »

For the longest time, I believed that college was not necessary and wanted to prove a point.

I have done fairly well for myself but I have to admit that life would have been a lot easier with it than without.

After realizing this several years ago, I still did not really attempt to finally go back to school.

The problem now is that college is a market like any other. It's probably close to the housing market around 2007. The cost has increased and the value has somewhat diminished.

I do not have any statistics on the cost of college when adjusted for inflation. There are a lot of other factors that make the cost so restrictive when compared to even 20 years ago.

The education market will need to crash and reset. It's likely that technology will speed this process along. With all that being said, take it from my 30+ years of trying to prove a point, it's worth it.

The myth of the Bill Gates college drop out starting a company like Microsoft is exceedingly rare. As technology becomes more widespread and regulated, the importance of a degree will only grow.

EDIT: formatting

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#397

Post by TheCoelacanth »

dvtv75 wrote: post #389
pmiller2 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your résumé is a marketing document. You don't have to put anything about your education on there if you have other stuff worth mentioning, like work experience and personal projects. This may increase your hit rate.

I had an argument with one guy who would fire you for "lying in an interview" if you didn't tell him you had a degree, or list it on your resume. His position was that people with degrees would work for him until a better job came along and then just move along, wasting his time "training" them. (Basic laboring work.) He didn't understand that he was just hiring the lowest common denominator because he wouldn't run a…

That sounds like a good person to avoid working with at all costs.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#398

Post by iron0013 »

Pieces like this get posted all the time, and the comments are always the same. Folks who don't think college is worthwhile bring anecdotes, while folks who know that college is worthwhile bring facts and data, which show very clearly that the financial returns to education are very real and very substantial. And that's just the financial returns, it doesn't even touch upon the social, personal, etc aspect!

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#399

Post by david38 »

vubuntu wrote: post #337
shaftway wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a degree and it almost never fails to come up. Ultimately I flunked out (for a variety of reasons). I've done a lot of A/B(/C/D/E) testing with my resume: - Don't include education - I'm asked about it. Every. Single. Time. - Include the years I attended college - Asked why I didn't finish. Every. Single. Time. - Include college in a misleading way - I did a summer extension program for 2 years while in…

>Ultimately I think there are a lot of industries that a degree requirement is a good thing (I really want my doctor to actually have an MD), a lot of industries where certification is sufficient . Why only Doctors? Because human lives are involved? I assume by the same logic, Civil Engineers also need to have a degree (they build bridges and other life critical infrastructure) There may be thousands of software prod…

Ha! Brings back memories. When I was an engineering student at UIUC, I was taking a physics class where the Prof graded crazy hard, even by the standards of the department.

His response was "one day you might build a bridge and can kill someone."

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#400

Post by darepublic »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #276
Reedx wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's referring to the "Day of Absence" where white people were not supposed to be on campus. A white progressive professor dared go to work that day and they tried to destroy him for it. It's also a big problem that free speech is increasingly under attack at universities. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/opinion/when-the-left-tur...

Free speech is not at all under attack at universities. What's happening is that shitty people are no longer able to say shitty things without being called out on it. That's what they're upset about.

How is disallowing a racial group from going to school without being screamed at and harassed fall under 'shitty people are no longer able to say shitty things without being called out on it'?
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