Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#321

Post by toephu2 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

a-priori wrote: post #223

mabbo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting Amazon Toronto starts new grads at like $80-100k last I heard. It's not as good as you can get in Silicon Valley, but rent in Toronto (while still high) is much lower than in the Valley.

For another data point: I'm an Amazon SDE2 in Ottawa making CA$225k total compensation this year (about 2/3 of that is salary). That's very good pay locally. I'm not sure I can match that anywhere else in the city. I might be able to get better in the States, even after cost-of-living increases, but what quality of life gain would there be? Would it be worthwhile to have to deal with all the crazy shit with the educa…

"Would it be worthwhile to have to deal with all the crazy shit with the education and healthcare systems and the politics down there?"

I don't know, 325M other people seem to be living with it and are not leaving in droves.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#322

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

m-p-3 wrote: post #17

Kelbit wrote: post #13

If Canadian companies were willing to offer a competitive salary, maybe Canadian grads would stay. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 with the US, even 75% would be nice. As it is, there is little incentive to stay here. I know a new grad who was faced with the choice of staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting, or heading to the US where he had a job offer with one of the big five for $120k USD plus signi…

I'm wondering how that salary difference really is when comparing the cost of living of many Canadian cities vs Silicon Valley, the taxation rate and the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

[deleted]

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#323

Post by moorhosj » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

jgh wrote: post #240

soperj wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The vast majority of those 35 million live in 3 really small areas. Just like the vast majority of california lives on the coast. California is a physically huge state by the way, that is fairly sparsely populated in big swaths of the state.

Unlike Canada, California benefits from a pool of ~290 million other people who self-select to move there with 0 barriers other than having a few dollars to buy a gray hound ticket.

Is the cost of housing a barrier?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#324

Post by brandon272 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

_xzxj wrote: post #134

whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

> Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody.

My exposure is more western Canada than eastern Canada, but I find that your statements couldn't be further from the truth. People here are constantly trying new things and exploring and experimenting with new business ideas. I see great optimism and people who see potential.

And in terms of being constantly questioned, I just don't see that where I am, but I also don't view being questioned as a bad thing. When it comes to launching any new idea, it seems that being questioned is the very least of the difficulty you need to put up with.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#325

Post by adiM » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

thrywayhn wrote: post #301

maerF0x0 wrote: post #295

Some reasons to stay in Canada: * Your spouse will not be able to work on your visa (TN / H1B) * "Full insurance coverage" does not mean for your spouse. Be prepared to pay for a delivery if you want to have children * Your child will have much higher post-secondary student loans * Crime, Firearms et al. IMO coming to SV is a young/single person's game (hence braindrain from grads). But a bad idea for established peo…

I disagree. The income disparity increases at senior levels. I hit a ceiling in Toronto where I hard trouble growing my career and making more than $180,000 CAD TC. Moving to silicon valley my experience was able to fetch over $500,00 USD TC. Sure it meant that for a year and a half my spouse can't work but that's not a big deal.

> Sure it meant that for a year and a half my spouse can't work

Where does the year and a half come from? Green card processing delay? That can be 10+ years for approximately 50% of the world population (Indians + Chinese)

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#326

Post by gagabity » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

Well this is scary, I am thinking of immigrating to Canada and get myself a Tech job (Mobile Dev), its between Canada & Germany right now and I think I have a better chance in Canada because I dont need to learn German to thrive and the permanent residence has much more reasonable maintanance terms once you get it.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#327

Post by qaq » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

The Canadian salaries people are posting here are pretty much what you would make in Ukraine wtf ?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#328

Post by m0llusk » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #249

jseliger wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were some way to put more houses on a given plot of land, perhaps by stacking one on top of another, we could somehow break this dynamic. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/11/san_francisco...

i'm yet to see a high-rise development resulting in cheaper housing, at least in US. No that i'm against it - i like it, when it is done right, for different reasons though. The housing prices are rising across the globe - one has to put somewhere all this money sloshing around. So, even to just stabilize the prices, one has to build faster than the money are printed - like Alice in Wonderland where you have to run f…

Replacing large swaths on single story single family houses with multiparty rentals does not necessarily involve any high rise buildings. Paris and Barcelona have proven that very high density can be achieved with four to six stories or less.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#329

Post by rdlecler1 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:45 PM UTC

brandon272 wrote: post #324

_xzxj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

> Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. My exposure is more western Canada than eastern Canada, but I find that your statements couldn't be further from the truth. People here are constantly trying new things and exploring and experimenting with new business ideas. I see great optimism and people who see potential. And in terms of being constantly questioned, I just don't see that where I am, but I al…

Originally from Calgary and I concur with the poster above. Canadians tend to think small. For venture the culture has been so burned by pump and dump penny stocks that there is no patient capital. Canada needs an enormous influx of venture capital. The problem is, is that the crown corporations who can make those bets are limited to investing in Canadian funds. If they could invest 10% into a US fund and the US fund agreed to invest 10% of the portfolio into Canada it could really open up the market.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#330

Post by criddell » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:46 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #97

criddell wrote: post #31

I've often wondered why Canada doesn't have way more entrepreneurs. With a strong social safety net, you can work on your startup and not have to worry about losing your health insurance.

Probably because health insurance is only one of many costs of living that you have to account for? Housing, transpo, food, utilities, etc - all account for far more than my healthcare costs for any given month/year.

You can eat ramen, ride public transit, and move to a cheaper apartment. But when you need chemo, you need chemo.