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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#291

Post by estebank »

Eridrus wrote: post #29
m-p-3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering how that salary difference really is when comparing the cost of living of many Canadian cities vs Silicon Valley, the taxation rate and the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

> the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc). I think the individual value of most social services is pretty low to people in this demographic (recent graduates taking software jobs in the US). Sure, universal healthcare is great, but US companies also provide health insurance.

That demographic you're referring to is no less likely to be involved in traffic accidents that can send you to the closest available hospital. In the US that means an ambulance bill and very likely a hospital bill that your insurance might not cover, and the high possibility of chronic pain that's not necessarily covered by your health insurance. And that's even before having to deal with lawyers in order to obtain compensation back from the driver's insurance company in order to repay the out of pocket expenses. (The system, at least in California is set up in such a way that the car insurance has to pay 3X the costs to divide in thirds for 1) your lawyer, 2) your insurance provider and 3) yourself.)

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#292

Post by chx »

First, a little bit of background: back in 1993, I uploaded Volkov Commander to Simtel FTP, they complained to the university I was uploading pirated software and I got booted from the university VAX. Noone gave a hoot about explanation or the truth.

In 2001, Dmitry Sklyarov was arrested. When I was choosing where to immigrate in 2006, this arrest was a factor in ruling out the USA (I was in a position I could choose).

In 2017, Marcus Hutchins was arrested. Since then I have not even entered the USA and will not unless badly pressed for business. This costs me hundreds of dollars when travelling to Europe but the risk is unacceptably high now.

I do not want to second guess everything I do. I do not want a simtel like misunderstanding to become a federal felony and possibly jail time.

I live in Vancouver BC, in safety and freedom. And I can't imagine how a freeminded tinkerer of software (deliberately not using "hacker" here to avoid a misunderstanding) could possibly choose to leave this for the danger the US is because of the DMCA and CFAA.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#293

Post by pm90 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #224
reaperducer wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries do. But the groupthink is that the USA is hostile to immigrants. Which doesn't explain all the immigrants (legal and otherwise). There's also the cliche (spread by the internet and political groups) that conservative/Republicans/etc... are against all immigration. This is 90% incorrect. I worked as support staff during a conference in Seattle of conservative business leaders around 2010. Their #1 topic…

> But the groupthink is that the USA is hostile to immigrants. Which doesn't explain all the immigrants (legal and otherwise). I don't know what groupthink you are talking about, but there is a wife perception that the US has recently become hostile toward immigrants. Which is reflected not only in fuzzy attitudes, but concrete policy, and it does explain changes in immigration, both legal and otherwise. > There's al…

> That's what they usually say, but they also usually oppose policy which would make legal immigration easier and relieve pressure that creates illegal immigration, and frequently support policies to restrict legal immigration. And it's not just 10% of conservatives supporting this kind of policy.

Look, I'm a liberal but I will call out the Dems when I need to. Most of the reforms to legal immigration have always been a sort of addendum, or a two-part deal with relief for the illegal immigrants included in them. Democrats haven't proposed a bill which purely targets legal immigration. So its a little unfair to say that conservatives are opposed to all kinds of Immigration.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#294

Post by siidooloo »

reaperducer wrote: post #213
josephjrobison wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda unrelated to immigration, but I've heard Canadian border patrol is actually more harsh than American border control. Anyone with experience that can verify?

Back when you only needed a drivers license to cross the border, the Canadian border person looked at my Texas driver's license and said, "Texas, huh. Where are your guns?" That would be considered unacceptable and unprofessional at U.S. border control.

They were probably trying to slip you up and see if you would say in the trunk or something.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#295

Post by maerF0x0 »

Some reasons to stay in Canada:

* Your spouse will not be able to work on your visa (TN / H1B)

* "Full insurance coverage" does not mean for your spouse. Be prepared to pay for a delivery if you want to have children

* Your child will have much higher post-secondary student loans

* Crime, Firearms et al.

IMO coming to SV is a young/single person's game (hence braindrain from grads). But a bad idea for established people or people who want a family / social safety.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#296

Post by jokh »

giarc wrote: post #116
chrisseaton wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh great so they're only losing the best then?

Although I'm not arguing the fact that Canadian grads are going south, I'm just pointing out the specific details which are important. Not only the fact that the rates are for 3 schools in Canada, but also their techniques to find people were to view their linkedin profiles. Why not go to Alumni Affairs at these schools and get contact lists? Not everyone has a LinkedIn profile, and by only contacting those with a pr…

> Not everyone has a LinkedIn profile, and by only contacting those with a profile, you are potentially introducing bias into the selection

How? Are you saying Canadian graduates that go south are more likely to have a LinkedIn profile?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#297

Post by vonmoltke »

systemBuilder wrote: post #287
vonmoltke wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the very competitive salary over 300k USD? How many jobs are actually paying that? The salaries posted on the "Who Is Hiring?" threads don't corroborate that, nor does my experience in NYC (which is supposed to be on par with those areas).

Google has at least 1000 employees in the Bay area in the $300k+ income bracket. The entry-level job at Google pays like a staff engineer at a mortal company.

So, 1000 out of a few hundred thousand employed as software engineers in the area?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#298

Post by jayvanguard »

Vancouver has changed a lot in the past 5 years. There are now two tiers of tech pay: the smaller companies that pay from low to ok and then a handful of SV companies that have moved in and are paying top tier money.

The dollar numbers are almost on par with the top SV salaries, albeit not with the current exchange rate. That fluctuates though.

Amazon opening up a new HQ in Vancouver will just strengthen this. The downside is that right now it is just a half dozen or so companies paying in this top range.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#299

Post by yarrel »

josephjrobison wrote: post #181
ng12 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who are hesitant to move to USA because of immigration restrictions. Where does this perception come from? Canada has stricter immigration rules than the USA. EDIT: Specifically what I'm talking about is that Canada only allows in immigrants who are economically desirable and speak English or French.

Kinda unrelated to immigration, but I've heard Canadian border patrol is actually more harsh than American border control. Anyone with experience that can verify?

Yep, far worse.

They were very nice when I activated my PR card though.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#300

Post by megaman22 »

josephjrobison wrote: post #181
ng12 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who are hesitant to move to USA because of immigration restrictions. Where does this perception come from? Canada has stricter immigration rules than the USA. EDIT: Specifically what I'm talking about is that Canada only allows in immigrants who are economically desirable and speak English or French.

Kinda unrelated to immigration, but I've heard Canadian border patrol is actually more harsh than American border control. Anyone with experience that can verify?

I've always faced much tougher scrutiny coming back across to the American side. Had lots of friends and family in Quebec, and we went fishing and hunting up there multiple trips a year, usually with a truck loaded for a week or two of being out in the woods. Even bringing firearms across, you just step inside the office and fill out the paperwork. Usually when we told them that we only had the legal limit of one case of beer or bottle of wine per adult, they'd joke and ask us if we were going to get thirsty while we were fishing...

The one thing that is a little sticky is that you can't get across the border if you have had a DUI within so many years. An issue for some of my dad's hunting buddies.

The US side coming back was always a bigger pain in the neck. Part of that is because of the way Border Patrol rotates their agents. You could always tell the ones that had recently rotated from the Mexican border because they were twitchy and kept a hand on their holster at all times. I'm sure it's a hard habit to break, but not really appropriate at a backwater crossing in Northern Maine where 95% of the traffic is log trucks and local Canadians coming over to fill up their gas tanks or pick up things they've ordered online.

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