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Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#191

Post by greaseball »

hluska wrote: post #162
greaseball wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers in Toronto are getting a raw deal. The cost of living is orders of magnitude higher than the rest of the country and devs aren't making the difference up with higher wages. So glad I made the decision to move from Toronto to Atlantic Canada this past year. I'm actually making more money in New Brunswick than I did in Toronto and can afford to own a 4 bedroom house instead of renting a 600 square foot condo…

I have been weighing making a move from Saskatchewan to New Brunswick. When I compare Regina to Fredericton (as an example) though, it seems like I must be missing something. On the surface, pay is generally better, the stacks/companies are more interesting, the location seems amazing, and comparable real estate is less than half. I know that Regina->NB is dramatically different from Toronto->NB, but is there anythin…

Might be obvious, but the biggest thing you'll give up in this market compared to cities like Toronto or Montréal is selection. There's some larger companies with satellite offices here (IBM, Salesforce, etc), but not too many startups.

One word of caution about real estate in the Fredericton area; don't buy any property too close to the river. There's usually flooding in the spring from the snow melt up stream and this year was especially bad. I was lucky enough not to be affected, but there's lots of homes taking flood damage right now.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#192

Post by padobson »

r-s wrote: post #166

Canadian tech worker here. Base salary is 120k CAD in Calgary which is far above market rate but I am educated, experienced etc. That is 93k USD. I am looking to move to the USA because of higher salaries, but I am not 22 years old anymore and moving a family (with 2 earners) is no easy task. It falls on deaf ears though, 120k CAD is a good income, I can afford a house, cars, no debts etc so there is very little unde…

Do Canadian companies make that much less money than American ones? Why should they get to pad their profit margins because 120k CAD is "good income"?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#193

Post by 52-6F-62 »

Kluny wrote: post #56

Canadian here. I get $65,000 USD from my remote American job. That's low enough that people on this forum snicker at me, and high enough that companies in the "tech town" that I live in physically wince when I tell them my salary expectation. I'd rather work locally, but what can I do?

You're doing better than me and I'm at one of the largest communications/media companies in the country— and I'm at the head office in Toronto.

I was in Victoria last week. Arriving back here I immediately regretted coming back. :| Except for, of course, the need for the pay, and a few of my things. I love it out there.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#194

Post by okfine »

jonathanyc wrote: post #138
okfine wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant employees of Canadian companies, who by definition are. (I edited it to say "their employees" instead of "Canadian employees". Hopefully that will help.)

If “Canadian tech companies have employees” is your criterion for Canada’s tech companies paying good wages, you’re in for a bad time. TFA is about Canadian employees leaving for the US for better wages, as the other commenter pointed out.

I didn't say they were paying "good" wages, but that they are paying market wages. The argument that Canadian software salaries aren't a market, but rather a stubborn choice by companies not to do the right thing, is curiously magical.

The question is, what would change the situation? Not some change of heart by companies to finally do the right thing, or come to their senses about what their self-interest really is. Those aren't real things. To change it would require some change in the fundamentals, such as if the government made it harder for people to leave.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#195

Post by fudged71 »

pmalynin wrote: post #21
2RTZZSro wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which city in Canada are you studying in? Have you spent some time in SV?

Edmonton. I worked in MTV for 4 months, 4 months in Seattle, and I'm leaving on Monday to SV again for the summer.

I have very similar feelings in Calgary although it's improving slowly.

But I have spent a lot of time in silicon valley and it has recently felt a lot worse, dangerous and gross. I hope my next trip brightens my spirits but it's getting harder for me to love the bay area.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#196

Post by ryanobjc »

chrisseaton wrote: post #60
giarc wrote: post #3

One main caveat "graduates from three of the country’s top universities – University of Waterloo, University of British Columbia and U of T – were working outside Canada." There are many other schools in Canada offering STEM programs.

Oh great so they're only losing the best then?

Pretty much. Which tells you what about those who remain behind?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#197

Post by soperj »

wjn0 wrote: post #182
soperj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

35 million but whatever. (edit: this was in response to it having 25 million people, not 36 million) It's kind of like saying that California is a really tiny state.

That's a weird comparison, I guess you say that because California's population (39 million) is close to that of Canada's (36.3 million)? No doubt California is diverse, and by no means homogenous, but Canada... is physically huge, and relatively speaking, very sparsely populated. This naturally leads to more diversity within an already "small" population. To develop a business with a target market of "all of Califor…

Not really. The vast majority of those 35 million live in 3 really small areas. Just like the vast majority of california lives on the coast. California is a physically huge state by the way, that is fairly sparsely populated in big swaths of the state.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#199

Post by badpun »

padobson wrote: post #192
r-s wrote: post #166

Canadian tech worker here. Base salary is 120k CAD in Calgary which is far above market rate but I am educated, experienced etc. That is 93k USD. I am looking to move to the USA because of higher salaries, but I am not 22 years old anymore and moving a family (with 2 earners) is no easy task. It falls on deaf ears though, 120k CAD is a good income, I can afford a house, cars, no debts etc so there is very little unde…

Do Canadian companies make that much less money than American ones? Why should they get to pad their profit margins because 120k CAD is "good income"?

A lot of the tech industry is about burning through investors' money in search of new profitable ideas. I'm guessing there's much less investor money in Canada.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#200

Post by Jare »

josephjrobison wrote: post #181
ng12 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who are hesitant to move to USA because of immigration restrictions. Where does this perception come from? Canada has stricter immigration rules than the USA. EDIT: Specifically what I'm talking about is that Canada only allows in immigrants who are economically desirable and speak English or French.

Kinda unrelated to immigration, but I've heard Canadian border patrol is actually more harsh than American border control. Anyone with experience that can verify?

During my years in Vancouver last decade, crossing the border to visit my brother in Seattle was such a stark contrast... Entering the USA I always felt like I was this close to being kicked back. From the faces, tones of voice, type of questions to the general atmosphere, all seemed intended to make me feel dominated. Crossing back to Canada was always fast and efficient, half the times the guards would even joke in good taste.

I don't think it was the difference between being a visitor (to the USA) vs a resident (in Canada), because the couple of times I went abroad while I was a resident in the USA were very similar.

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