Live data from Hacker News

Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

stackoverflow.blog

411–420 of 739 posts

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#411
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please provide a way to flag a question You can do those with prose. Explain that you know what you're doing. Give an underlying reason that shows that your X is an X. Answerers can only act on a) the information you provide b) heuristics they have based on seeing many other questions. If you do not provide a) then they'll have to fall back on b)

that invites a debate about the premise. i shouldn't need to justify my constraints. i should be able to pose a problem and STATE the constraints. if you don't believe that my constraints are real then you can feel free to not answer my question but the SO regulars always feel the need to interact even when they have nothing to add.

> i shouldn't need to justify my constraints.

If you're asking people for free help and to spend their time understanding how their relevant but not identical experiences may adapt to your different-but-related problem, then yeah, you might.

If someone, even someone I respect, know personally, and work alongside, comes up to me and says "I need to install a nearly-20-year-old version of MySQL next to a modern software stack; help!" [0], I'm going to ask "why?" and maybe "are you sure there's no other way to approach your goal?" first. Not presumptuously or because I'm sure I know better, but because a) the answer will help me better understand the problem and goal, and b) because sometimes extremely competent, rational people really do overlook the obvious solutions, sometimes for days/weeks spent beating their head against the wrong problem.

Sometimes the justification is as simple as "it's a business constraint imposed from above". Sometimes it's a more complex story. Either way, wanting to know that isn't asking too much.

[0]: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47350382

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#412
post #45

I've experienced a form of hostility in StackOverflow just recently--as in a couple of days ago. On a whim, I visited the website and answered a couple questions, something I'd never done before. I realized it was actually a lot of fun, so I started rapidly answering the all JavaScript questions I could as they were asked. Suddenly a "higher ranking" individual started leaving comments on my answers that I needed to…

It is run by humans after all. Some of these humans, even in their high ranking are just that, humans. I usually avoid those types as they sometimes have an axe to grind and want to take it out on "underlings". My rep is high enough anyway there that those types are just pathetic.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#413
post #59

> Too many people experience Stack Overflow¹ as a hostile or elitist place True. There's definitely an elitist undertone at Stack Overflow, and the voting system has a huge effect on that... > especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups. But this isn't true. No one knows anything about a user on Stack Overflow unless they explicitly announce it, and generally my perception seems…

> But this isn't true. No one knows anything about a user on Stack Overflow unless they explicitly announce it, and generally my perception seems to be a disdain towards newer members in general, not ones from any particular group. Why would you say this with such conviction when you don't know anything about what the team is doing behind the scenes? They do yearly surveys that do include things like culture / minori…

[deleted]

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suddenly a "higher ranking" individual started leaving comments on my answers that I needed to stop answering certain questions, and only address "well asked" questions. I love Stack Overflow, and it's sure a valuable if imperfect resource, but this is something that drives me bonkers about it. If the question is intelligible enough to receive an answer, and if your answer is potentially helpful to the asker, then…

I think the core problem is that they've focused too much on being like wikipedia (a single authoritative, comprehensive answer to each important question), and not enough on helping people to learn. Over time a site will grow a culture, and experts on the site will outweigh and overrule experts on the subject matter. In this case, we're also seeing answerers' needs outweigh askers'. If you could only meet the needs…

I think that will result in 10000 questions asking how do I add an entry to a vector. There are a lot of dear internet do my thinking for me, and no way those people are thinking or researching before posting

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there’s no mechanism by which “people of color”, “women”, or “minorities” can even be identified That's a legit question: If people don't even know what gender you are/what color your skin is, can they actually be intentionally racist/sexist towards you? Which makes me wonder if the actual wrong turn we took was making social media as prevalent as it is today. 20 years ago people on the www were really careful abou…

> If people don't even know what gender you are/what color your skin is, can they actually be intentionally racist/sexist towards you? Not directly, but often indirectly since in such a situation it is common to assume you are a white male. That's a bit off-putting if you are not one, but you might put up with it rather than clarifying your gender/race if doing so opens you up to a risk of direct sexism/racism

How would you treat a white male differently from any other demographic on a technical forum?

This identity politics bullshit is an anti-intellectual cancer. Truth is universal, race, gender, etc have nothing at all to do with it.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#417

> Too many people experience Stack Overflow¹ as a hostile or elitist place Agree > especially newer coders Totally agree > women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups. What the actual F *?

see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16935488

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#418
I can hardly imagine how can StackOverflow be specifically hostile to women or racial minorities. I have never witnessed anybody being rude to another person for just their gender or skin colour there. Do anybody even care about who the author of a question or an answer is? A question is either interesting or nonsensical or normal, an answer is either useful or not. I don't think many people care to explore the author profile to write a gender/racially-specific answer/comment, also nobody is forced to disclose their race, sex or real name on StackOverflow AFAIK.

At the same time all the "question quality" stuff seems a purist loon crazy well beyond reason. There are many highly-upvoted and much-bookmarked questions that are reasonable and interesting and have useful, highly-upvoted answers but get closed and deleted for stupid reasons so only high-rank users can see them.

As for me I use to upvote (and hurry to answer if I can) reasonable and valid questions that others vote to close out of pure protest.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#419
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there's a bit of "5 Whys" going on here. Most of the times I end up on Stack Overflow, I arrive via Google. I usually have to check for around 5 answers before I find one that hasn't been locked as "not constructive" or for some other arbitrary reason. Is it any wonder that people find it easier to ask their own questions? The name "help vampire" is so telling of how SO mods see themselves (as arbiters an…

>(as arbiters and gatekeepers of all that is good against the raging unwashed hordes Its not untrue though, is it? Its really easy for such communities to really rapidly degrade. That SO and wikipedia have both retained quality for so long, while also having strict moderators hunting a strong ideal, in areas where so many of their peers have fallen prey to the unwashed hordes , implies that it may not be so easy to d…

No, SO has not retained quality. It’s a wasteland of promising questions that moderators turned into dead ends, to the point that finding an SO link relevant to your issue in a Google searches is practically guaranteed to leave you more frustrated than before. It pollutes the troubleshooting process with false hope.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use my initial on SE to conceal my gender, and I am usually assumed to be male in third-person references.

Does that matter on a site like SO? I usually use “they” not to assume gender, but does it really bother you if someone assumes male?

Don't know about others, but for me the answer is: A little bit. Not a huge amount, not because someone on the internet got it wrong. But because it is a reminder that I basically have to try and hide my gender on a huge part of the internet to not be harassed. I already have to stay away from LinkedIn unless I am applying for a job due to guys thinking it is a dating site. I have to pick ambiguous usernames that don't hint at gender. I occasionally have to throw an account away on a site.

It bothers me that I basically have to pretend to be a dude on most of the internet because of assholes.

Post reply on HN