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Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

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Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#311

Post by corobo »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #165
pishpash wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ratings already take care of curating. Why do you need assholes to curate?

Same reason why HN has both up/down votes, and actual moderators.

> HN has both up/down votes

This separates the good from the bad

> and actual moderators

This stops the trolling and spammy pump and dump comments/posts

It works pretty well. I've never felt unwelcome on HN, even when something I've posted gets downvoted. I come away with a more "ehhh, yeah I get it" feel rather than anything resembling the bitterness I feel whenever StackOverflow is the only option in search results.

Give people powers based on how much they use a site and they'll just start pushing people out of the site. It happened a lot back in the day in IRC, happens all over Wikipedia, happens all over StackOverflow. There's a pattern.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#312

Post by muse900 »

warent wrote: post #45

I've experienced a form of hostility in StackOverflow just recently--as in a couple of days ago. On a whim, I visited the website and answered a couple questions, something I'd never done before. I realized it was actually a lot of fun, so I started rapidly answering the all JavaScript questions I could as they were asked. Suddenly a "higher ranking" individual started leaving comments on my answers that I needed to…

Similar experience here.

Once I made an account and tried to be more active. I got told off for asking questions about issues I was having or because my answers weren't liked by someone with high rep.

I gave up on it. I never use my stackoverflow account. I use stackoverflow on a daily basis, to find preexisting issues around what I am working on and read possible solutions, but thats it. I don't consider logging in and asking about an issue I am having, let alone help anyone else.

I feel like the toxicity around the community has led me into that. I do feel like people on stackoverflow are elitists, thats what I am getting about it. I feel like they are playing on a different league than me and they make me feel lesser although I am pretty certain that am competent enough to succeed.

I am grateful for stackoverflow, but I definitely don't see using an account on there anytime soon, and its going to take a long long time for stackoverflow to win me over as a contributor :/

P.S - Out of about 30 devs I worked with in the past / working now with etc I've only seen 3 of them using stackoverflow by contributing to it, or when they get an issue they post about it. The rest of them use stackoverflow the same way I use it which proves a pattern here, at least on my personal circle.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#313

Post by galacticpony2 »

manigandham wrote: post #284
galacticpony2 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have less tolerance, how is that anyone else's problem? Call me a radical, but people should have a modicum of social responsibility towards each other. > Some people are also more prone to sunburn than others, but we don't say the sun needs to be less bright. Luckily, we don't need to, having invented sunscreen. > You are in control of your own feelings. No you're not. Feelings are sneaky that way. > Also w…

Exactly, if you are more prone to sunburn, wear more sunscreen. Same as handling your own feelings. And yes, feelings are completely in your head. Things happen in the world and your mind reacts a certain way. Nobody else knows how you will react nor do they have any control of your consciousness.

> Exactly, if you are more prone to sunburn, wear more sunscreen. Same as handling your own feelings.

If you could "handle your feelings" as easily as putting on sunscreen, literally every psychotherapist would be out of work.

> And yes, feelings are completely in your head.

Anything you will ever perceive is "in your head". You don't control a lot of it. "Positive thinking" doesn't cure depression or schizophrenia.

> Nobody else knows how you will react nor do they have any control of your consciousness.

Human reactions are actually fairly predictable. Being rude, arrogant or condescending is generally off-putting. Some amount of control can be exerted as well, for instance, it will almost certainly be impossible for you to not briefly picture a TINY PINK ELEPHANT after having read this sentence.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#314

Post by Ajedi32 »

WA wrote: post #21

I hate if I help people, provide the correct answer but they never accept it. SO should encourage people to accept the correct answer somehow. Maybe force them to review answers to their questions before posting new questions.

It's already incentivised: accepting an answer gives you +2 reputation.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#315

Post by AdeptusAquinas »

freeflight wrote: post #249
jakear wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. While I do think “newer coders” may very likely feel unwelcome, as an extension of the elitism issue, there’s no mechanism by which “people of color”, “women”, or “minorities” can even be identified... I fear people are subconsciously correlating these groups with “less able coders”. Obviously this correlation serves only to damage.

> there’s no mechanism by which “people of color”, “women”, or “minorities” can even be identified That's a legit question: If people don't even know what gender you are/what color your skin is, can they actually be intentionally racist/sexist towards you? Which makes me wonder if the actual wrong turn we took was making social media as prevalent as it is today. 20 years ago people on the www were really careful abou…

> If people don't even know what gender you are/what color your skin is, can they actually be intentionally racist/sexist towards you?

Not directly, but often indirectly since in such a situation it is common to assume you are a white male. That's a bit off-putting if you are not one, but you might put up with it rather than clarifying your gender/race if doing so opens you up to a risk of direct sexism/racism

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#316

Post by inostia »

crispyambulance wrote: post #123
inostia wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing I appreciate about SO is that its users aren't afraid to call out dumb questions for what they are. Seriously, the majority of new questions _are_ dumb, or at least misunderstand the point of SO being a canonical source for generalized questions relating to CS/programming. Consider this recent question: "Should I start edx cs50 course before any other JavaScript course, or in the middle, or after?" This…

> the point of SO being a canonical source for generalized questions relating to CS/programming. NO. The point of SO is NOT to be a "canonical source for generalized questions [and answers] relating to CS/Programming". In fact, if you ask a "generalized question" it will be smacked down as "too broad". If you ask a CS question, it will be downvoted as off-topic. SO is a place to ask certain kinds of very specific and…

I don't think what I said came across correctly. Of course overly broad questions will get downvoted. What I meant was, "questions that will likely benefit another person in the community". I.e. there is a sweet spot in terms of specificity. Asking for help about a very specific problem with a homework assignment or asking for advice about what class to take next are too specific and more than likely won't benefit anyone else.

Regarding your point about CS, I meant something like "within the broad range of questions related to practical computer science, specifically programming." Yes, I know there's another Exchange site for more theoretical Computer Science topics, where some questions might be more appropriate...

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#317

Post by danmg »

_kst_ wrote: post #306
ldiracdelta wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular and so I will use "bad", yet colorful, words for people behaving bad. No one is going to read these comments and think they are the neckbeards, but most people who have participated in Stack Overflow have interacted with a preening, sneering neckbeard and neckbeards are indeed a problem on Stack Overflow.

Speaking as someone who happens to have a full beard, I find your use of the slur "neckbeard" insulting. Find another way to say whatever you meant.

k

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#318

Post by throwaway613834 »

> I’d encourage you to take these implicit bias tests, specifically the Race IAT and the Gender-Career IAT. If you’re like me, they’re going to hurt.

Hurt, and possibly needlessly so. I would also encourage reading about the flaws of said tests: https://qz.com/1144504/the-world-is-relying-on-a-flawed-psyc...

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#319

Post by sergiotapia »

asdsa5325 wrote: post #25

I've never seen minorities being mistreated on stack overflow. Does anyone have any examples?

It's not true, but they have to signal somehow.

Latino here, never experienced a single thing they're claiming on their site. I've been using SO since around 2009.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#320

Post by inostia »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #126
inostia wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing I appreciate about SO is that its users aren't afraid to call out dumb questions for what they are. Seriously, the majority of new questions _are_ dumb, or at least misunderstand the point of SO being a canonical source for generalized questions relating to CS/programming. Consider this recent question: "Should I start edx cs50 course before any other JavaScript course, or in the middle, or after?" This…

There are far, far more constructive ways to educate the asker of such a question than to outright tell them they're stupid. Especially because, while such a question might not be the most constructive, it being there doesn't hurt anyone at all. It doesn't cost anything to be nice and to try and make the community feel more welcoming.

I wasn't talking about mean or hurtful language. I was talking about telling someone that their question isn't a good fit for SO. The consequence of that may be a feeling of being "excluded". So now everyone has to add a smiley face at the end of their comments when they say, "You didn't add any sample code. I don't know what you're asking help about" or "I can't understand your question, you should rephrase it"?
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