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America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#91

Post by specialist »

SlapHappy wrote: post #76
specialist wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bigotry? Because every magazine needs an anti-abortion zealot on staff? For balance? Dear me, where will I get my daily trog talking points if The Atlantic doesn't spoon feed them to me?

This isn't about whether you agree or disagree with KDW. It's about the cowardly smearing he endured and the fact that Jeff Goldberg, the so called "editor-in-chief" of The Atlantic, is not really the editor-in-chief at all, his staffers and the Twitter mob are. People are forgetting that KDW did NOT apply to work at The Atlantic, he did NOT actively set about getting a job there, he was contacted and recruited by Th…

Then stop reading The Atlantic. Voila, problem solved.

Unless you’re running low and need a new source to feed your outrage addiction.

Update:

What was your response to MSNBC booting Sam Seder over his Polanski tweet (tasteless joke)?

Sorry, I don’t do corporate media, took me a while to remember enough details to google this example.

I’m sure there’s acres of examples. From my time, it was Fox News shutting down the Ayre (dairy cow) whistle blowers.

Just curious if your outrage is equal opportunity or selective.

For my part, I still haven’t forgiven The Atlantic for getting Cheney elected and pimping the 2nd Iraq War. Cracks me up that the alt-right hates them now. No good deed goes unpunished.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#92

Post by [deleted] »

stevenwoo wrote: post #69
justin66 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea what he has to say for himself in the wsj since it's behind a paywall, but I did google him. I wasn't familiar with any of this but if this is accurate: It was Mr. Williamson’s hard-line stance on abortion — namely, that it should be treated as premeditated homicide and punished accordingly, perhaps by hanging — that generated the initial controversy over his hiring. Well, you know, his time at The Atlantic w…

It was an appalling failure to investigate his background by the man who hired him, critics rightly pointed our Williamson's equivalency of murder and abortion - which has led to many not too bright folks to actually murdering abortion providers.

[deleted]

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#93

Post by kadenshep »

montyf wrote: post #67
akhilcacharya wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also remember a time when human decency wasn't shrouded in the pejorative "political correctness". Both myself and the leadership of The Atlantic listened to what Kevin Williamson said. I think it speaks for itself.

> I also remember a time when human decency wasn't shrouded in the pejorative "political correctness". Not sure what you're getting at with this rhetoric (no wonder you're a fan of vague, politically-correct statements -- I have no idea what the second part of your comment means). People don't like political correctness because it's a manipulation tool of policy makers, used to misdirect and to prevent unwanted discu…

>Not sure what you're getting at with this rhetoric

Yes you do.

> People don't like political correctness because it's a manipulation tool of policy makers

No, some people don't like it because it lays bare their complete lack of human decency, or standards of any sort.

>used to misdirect and to prevent unwanted discussion

"I don't want to discuss topics that might shed light on the injustices of our society or make me feel uncomfortable."

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#94

Post by SlapHappy »

ModernMech wrote: post #72
justin66 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea what he has to say for himself in the wsj since it's behind a paywall, but I did google him. I wasn't familiar with any of this but if this is accurate: It was Mr. Williamson’s hard-line stance on abortion — namely, that it should be treated as premeditated homicide and punished accordingly, perhaps by hanging — that generated the initial controversy over his hiring. Well, you know, his time at The Atlantic w…

> It's mostly distressing that a lunatic like that can get the time of day, let alone a paying job as an opinion writer. That's who you've got remaining on the right. Take a look at sane conservative writers like Jennifer Rubin at the Post. She wrote as a conservative for years under Obama, and now she's suddenly labeled a leftist traitor now that she's critical of Trump. She didn't change, her party did. Or just loo…

Have you taken the time to investigate KDW's actual views on abortion or capital punishment? Are you aware that he opposes capital punishment? Have you ever read some of his columns? Do you know that he's the walking, talking definition of a Never-Trumper? Have you ever read some of his brilliant theater reviews for The New Criteron? Have you read his excoriating, searing take down of white identity politics and the populist right (The White-Minstrel Show)? Have you read his heartbreaking and nuanced piece of the opioid epidemic (How Prescription-Drug Abuse Unleashed a Heroin Epidemic)?

Edit: removed personal comment.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#95

Post by [deleted] »

tntn wrote: post #79
maxerickson wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not really "intolerant" to choose not to elevate a particular viewpoint. People saying Williamson shouldn't be allowed to publish anything anywhere are obviously being intolerant. People saying they'd rather not subscribe to a publication that pays him to expound on vile views? Meh.

Would you mind clarifying which vile views you are referring to?

[deleted]

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#96

Post by [deleted] »

zeveb wrote: post #89
justin66 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The short summary is that he actually does not believe that abortion should be punished by hanging as you suggest. An excerpt: It wasn't really my suggestion, it was a quote from a larger NYT article. Sorry, I should have sited it, but it hardly seems crucial to what I was saying: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/business/media/kevin-will... Evidently the decision to fire him was informed by more than a single il…

> Let's be honest, from the viewpoint of an Atlantic editor, hiring a guy who thinks it's a funny joke to make would have been as bad as hiring a guy who actually believes it. The Atlantic hired Ta-Nehisi Coates , who is far more extreme on the other side of things. It wouldn't have hurt to have someone to counterbalance him.

[deleted]

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#97

Post by briandear »

chongli wrote: post #42
WhompingWindows wrote: post #35

Of course this is true. If anyone is naive enough to believe America is a hellish wasteland of terrible politics, and that that transfers to overall Quality of Life metrics for society as a whole, they might be surprised by this. Any honest look at data on employment, QoL, services available for free or very cheaply in the lives of the average citizen, there are many reasons for optimism. Personally, I try to cut fro…

I look at the opioid epidemic as a symptom, not the problem itself. The broader problem is globalization and the local inequalities it's producing. The Heartland of the United States is being hollowed out and turned into a desolate wasteland, economically speaking. The steady advances in economic productivity are accruing to an ever-shrinking proportion of the population. The media-political circus should also be tak…

Opioid addiction is because opioids make you feel really good and they are really addictive and they had a tendency to be overprescribed. Blaming the economy for opioids is like blaming airplanes for AIDS.

As far as the wasteland heartland, I am not sure if Texas is included in the heartland, but the Texas economy is one of the biggest in the world — about as large as the GDP of Canada and larger than that of South Korea. Basically Texas is the 9th or 10th largest economy in the world. California is 5th or 6th. The state of Ohio’s economy is only slightly smaller than the entire country of Belgium.

The desolate wastelands are in the non-major cities and towns of Europe. Avignon France, for example, in the city center, has blocks and blocks of boarded up storefronts. Unemployment in Avignon is over 15% and only 35% even earn enough to have to pay income tax. Gary, Indiana, about as heartland as it gets, has a 7.6% unemployment rate — a rate that is declining. By European standards of GDP, disposable income and unemployment, Gary is a boomtown.

Don’t just consume the NPR-worthy stories of the death of the US heartland. Remember, most media outlets in the vein of the Atlantic, NPR, etc., they are typically coastal elites who have barely ever visited the heartland, let alone actually lived or worked there. They are also an echo chamber pushing an when’d a of a certain political persuasion, so it helps their narrative when “fly-over country” isn’t doing well.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#98

Post by jhpriestley »

brandonmenc wrote: post #10
humanrebar wrote: post #4

> What explains the gulf between most Americans’ hopeful outlook on areas and institutions they know directly and their despair about the country they know only through the news? In their anthropological foray, they notice that people generally get along with local people in local contexts. That's certainly true. A lot of the acrimony, tribalism, and fear comes from the growing divisiveness of American culture at lar…

Thank you for using the correct definition of "bigotry." The general population seems to confuse "bigot" only with "racist" or "sexist," for some reason.

The dictionary definition simply isn't accurate to modern usage. 19th century uses of "bigot" are mostly about what we would call a "religious zealot" or "fundamentalist". By the 21st century, most "bigot" references are closer to "xenophobe". It seems to have taken on the meaning of "racist or sexist or homophobic etc.," a generic term for anyone with prejudiced views.

This semantic drift is convenient for those who would like to equivocate between "ideologue" and "xenophobe" and pretend that they are basically the same thing, or necessarily as bad as one another.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#99

Post by crankylinuxuser »

Clubber wrote: post #30
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this last weekend, we were going through northern Ohio. We stopped at a restaurant. Greasy spoon, one of. Smelled good outside, and lots of cars. We ate. Good food, reasonable price. Near the end, the waitress asked if we'd NOT pay in credit card, so she wouldn't have to report the tips. I'm not terribly concerned about being a conspirator to tax fraud with someone making $2.35/hr Then she goes into talking abou…

I believe you are confusing racism with bigotry. Here is the dictionary definition of racism: >prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. Of course superior is an objective word, but I don't see any evidence in that quoted statement where she felt superior. Honestly sounded more like self pity, jealousy and stereotyping. "…

I disagree with that definition of racism.

Racism is the application of social traits, be they positive or negative, across an ethnicity of people, with little to no concern for the individual.

Stating something about African Americans along with fried chicken or watermelon is racist. Assuming, that because someone is black that they must like this is racist.

In my case, it was the said assumption that "brown and black all suck the test of welfare". The unstated assumption was that they were all lazy, and "us poor working whites" should have had access to it.

Racism also goes into "positive traits" too. Stating,"Well you're Asian, so you must be good at math." Is also racist.

In the same light, but if we talk of Men or Women, its roughly the same but called Sexist. Instead of making a decision based upon racial generalizations, its sexual generalizations.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#100

Post by ModernMech »

SlapHappy wrote: post #94
ModernMech wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's mostly distressing that a lunatic like that can get the time of day, let alone a paying job as an opinion writer. That's who you've got remaining on the right. Take a look at sane conservative writers like Jennifer Rubin at the Post. She wrote as a conservative for years under Obama, and now she's suddenly labeled a leftist traitor now that she's critical of Trump. She didn't change, her party did. Or just loo…

Have you taken the time to investigate KDW's actual views on abortion or capital punishment? Are you aware that he opposes capital punishment? Have you ever read some of his columns? Do you know that he's the walking, talking definition of a Never-Trumper? Have you ever read some of his brilliant theater reviews for The New Criteron? Have you read his excoriating, searing take down of white identity politics and the…

I don't remember attacking you personally, so I'd appreciate if you didn't attack me. I'm not going to engage with this kind of response.

I'll just close by saying yes, I have read much of what you mention, and maybe that says something about you that you would immediately assume and then attack based on wrong assumptions. Maybe some time for some introspection?

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