Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#161

Post by talltimtom » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

ksk wrote: post #27

I worry they're going to come after us programmers next. Only "authorized" programmers will get the access code required to change anything. Microsoft, Apple, Dell, etc will control the access codes. "Programming is hard, and these untrained self-taught programmers can mess up your machine, they might install malware, or they might be hackers, or they might overclock your CPU and damage it, or they might use the syst…

What are you talking about Apple and Microsoft already control those gateways, and for good reason. It’s trivial to write a mail client thAt just so happens to steal you passwords if it’s running while you browse. The balance now is if they abuse their role you have a billion dollar lawsuit and can leverage that against them.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#162

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #135

Techowl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't car parts be a much more accurate analogy, though? Apple isn't suing anyone for not using Apple-branded electricity to power their phone.

No, but they are making it very difficult for anyone to use, for example, non-Apple-branded cloud storage. And they are making it nearly impossible for anyone to use non-Apple-approved apps.

> they are making it very difficult for anyone to use, for example, non-Apple-branded cloud storage

Which is why they added support for arbitrary file providers to integrate with iOS 11's Files app, and why they announced that iWork will support collaborating through Box last month?

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#163

Post by mitchty » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:57 PM UTC

blattimwind wrote: post #119

FireBeyond wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first thing you are being told when becoming Apple Authorized Service provider is UP-SELL. Your main function and profit source is telling people "cant be repaired/repair will cost as much as new one, would you like this new model?" I had water damage to a 2013 MBP, minor but nonetheless. It passed all diagnostics. Ran fine on AC power. Battery diagnostics were fine too. But it wouldn't charge. "Charge circuit…

> So, there's labor, etc. But you're going to tell me that to repair something, that by your own diagnostics, is fine except for this one part costs 70% of the new purchase price? That's what a highly integrated machine gets you. Charge circuit defective => replace entire main board, including CPU, probably memory and storage too nowadays. No one is doing component-level repairs any more.

> No one is doing component-level repairs any more.

Not entirely accurate, its just a highly skilled bit of work that you have to work to find people that can do it. This guy does it: https://www.rossmanngroup.com

Watch his youtube channel here and you can learn how to do it yourself: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w

That said, in general you're right. Component level repair on multi layer pcb's with BGA or reflow soldering is... not all that economical in the amount of labor and skill and equipment involved.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#164

Post by dpkonofa » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:57 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #19

urda wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. The reason why Apple doesn't want any Joe-schmoe just yanking and replacing caps and other components is simple: quality control. I can barely count on two hands people I would be comfortable working on the innards of a PC,…

> Louis Rossmann, who openly admitted to using illegally obtained schematics and internal documents from Apple? I wouldn't be throwing that name around as a talking point at all in this discussion. So you're discounting someone's opinion because they were forced to use unauthorized repair manuals since the manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for? That's the whole crux of the…

>manufacturer stopped producing repair manuals for devices customers have paid for

Why is a manufacturer in any way obligated to provide this information for customers (and for free, no less)? Apple is not stopping him from taking apart these devices and figuring out how to repair them but I don't see why they should shoulder any obligation to provide that information to people that refuse to become an authorized repair center (which is exactly what that authorization and certification gets them).

>Someone has a broken device, they shouldn't be allowed to try and repair it themselves

This is not at all the point of contention nor in any way what Apple is doing here. Stop spreading FUD.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#165

Post by lloeki » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:57 PM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #132

intopieces wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of Apple's case. First, it seems like they are suing for trademark infringement, not for copyright infringement. Second, the repair shop owner is by no stretch of the imagination the end user of this product. Wikipedia gives this definition of en…

> I think a reasonable step that this guy should have to take is to explicitly state, "I am not an authorized Apple repair technician and these parts are not guaranteed to be genuine Apple parts. They do not bear an Apple warranty and are not eligible for support by Authorized Apple Technicians." Okay. So my mechanic needs to state that for every single manufacturer of every single component that he may potentially u…

I certainly expect my mechanic to tell me he’s going to install non stock/genuine parts beforehand if some happen to need replacement. "Hey, your brake discs/tranny/whatevs is dead, let me swap that for some (possibly non spec-compliant) third-party part! You'll save xx bucks! (and hopefully it won't break down in YY000km at the most critical moment, nor fuck up the whole thing because they're not properly balanced or whatever! but shhhh I'd rather not tell you that)"

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#166

Post by RivieraKid » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:58 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #47

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

The "clean" solution would be a legal requirement that people buying used iPhones should have the knowledge that it contains unoriginal parts.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#167

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

HammerJack wrote: post #114

comboy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

Considering Apple intentionally slows older phones with firmware updates post new phone release, I think your argument that they're trying to protect the experience doesn't hold much weight.

> Considering Apple intentionally slows older phones with firmware updates post new phone release

Source, please?

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#168

Post by dpkonofa » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

ryguytilidie wrote: post #24

opencl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see any indication that this man was claiming to use genuine Apple components? I see nothing of the sort on his website[1]. The article specifically says that he made no claims of being authorized by Apple or using genuine Apple components and the court agreed with him. There was an Apple logo, on an internal component, which was covered up , because (at least according to the seller) they actually are A…

I feel like I see this on the internet more and more lately. Paragraph one starts with some shoddy, made up evidence where they mock some idea and then you look for the start of paragraph 2 to figure out what they're really getting themselves upset about: "This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement." So yeah, have a problem with some group, reorganize information to make that group look bad and…

I appreciate you trying to discredit me instead of the argument I was making but the article has been modified since its posting. The original had a claim where the guy said he was using original, authorized Apple parts:

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#169

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 9:00 PM UTC

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #79

comboy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

The $300+ I had to pay to repair a phone because of a problem in their design leaves me extremely doubtful of this. I think it is all about money to them, and when they think they can win more money than it costs them in image, they will go after cases like this.

> The $300+ I had to pay to repair a phone because of a problem in their design leaves me extremely doubtful of this.

What problem in their design are you referring to?

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#170

Post by dpkonofa » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 9:00 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #62

ryguytilidie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I see this on the internet more and more lately. Paragraph one starts with some shoddy, made up evidence where they mock some idea and then you look for the start of paragraph 2 to figure out what they're really getting themselves upset about: "This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement." So yeah, have a problem with some group, reorganize information to make that group look bad and…

> Why? Because he’s a former Apple employee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpkonofa

Why does that have any affect on my point? The article has been changed since it was originally posted. The original article had the guy claiming he was using genuine Apple parts which was stated right on the company's website (they've changed it since the case went to court):

https://web.archive.org/web/20160327050030/http://www.pckomp...