Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#61

Post by kevin_b_er » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

Because corporations are trying to erode the concept of ownership itself for the common human. Copyright and trademark are the vehicles they're use to attempt to deny you the fundamental notion of ownership. The corporations are getting quite close to it in the US.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#62

Post by ericabiz » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

ryguytilidie wrote: post #24

opencl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see any indication that this man was claiming to use genuine Apple components? I see nothing of the sort on his website[1]. The article specifically says that he made no claims of being authorized by Apple or using genuine Apple components and the court agreed with him. There was an Apple logo, on an internal component, which was covered up , because (at least according to the seller) they actually are A…

I feel like I see this on the internet more and more lately. Paragraph one starts with some shoddy, made up evidence where they mock some idea and then you look for the start of paragraph 2 to figure out what they're really getting themselves upset about: "This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement." So yeah, have a problem with some group, reorganize information to make that group look bad and…

> Why?

Because he’s a former Apple employee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpkonofa

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#63

Post by jammi » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

ivoras wrote: post #44

After watching things like this (Louis Rossmann), https://youtu.be/FeUBdMU2qA0 , if I ever buy an Apple product I'll basically treat it as unrepairable.

Yeah, but still their laptops are much more durable than the competitors'; https://i.imgur.com/eKq8ZCG.png

Someone who repairs a single brand of products will have a skewed image of the big picture. He'll basically only receive items too damaged to be repairable by others, but he has no data on whether he receives 1/million or 1/2 whatever and makes the assumption every single one of them are like the ones he receive. I've watched Rossmann's every video for a couple of years on my youtube subscriptions until he started with his political opinion and investment recommendation talks. It's a guy who thinks his opinion is the infallible fact and that there are no other possible explanations, and it undermines his professional opinions as well.

I've done repairs on my own Apple products once they've been out of warranty and it's not as bad as he makes it sound. Parts are easily accessible either as China-clones or working spare parts from dismantled products, because almost every model of anything Apple makes are made for a very long time and in large volumes. You'll have a much harder time finding something like a spare motherboard for a 5 year old random Acer laptop and such. Apple does carry service parts for a long time for their products as well and they're accessible to the authorized service providers, but the pricing is very steep and not really worth it unless it's the only option you have, or if it's paid by insurance.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#64

Post by crististm » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

dpkonofa wrote: post #2

This will get canned on the appeal, guaranteed. The article is a bit misleading because they're not going after him because he's doing aftermarket repairs. They're going after him because he's claiming that the repaired devices are using genuine parts from Apple, which even have the Apple logo on them, yet they weren't purchased from Apple. This is my biggest complaint with the "Right to Repair" movement. They're con…

Where do you get the idea that Apple or anyone else for that matter can dictate the after market service level?

The appropriate move is that everybody on the market to deliver the schematics of the device to the purchaser, not to the service shops. And while we're at it (since as you said, Apple is not fighting the right to repair) provide also the complete source code with all the private keys they use to brick repaired devices into oblivion.

You might want to reconsider your position on defending idiotic corporate behavior against individuals.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#65

Post by wildchild » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

Apple is a scam.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#66

Post by Someone1234 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #49

Someone1234 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drop the attacks and focus on the article, this is HN not reddit. You cannot credibly post that when you yourself minutes earlier posted this: > Failing to understand that means I cannot discuss this article with you at all since a really important common understanding has been missed on your part. Want to follow your own advice?

Please don't engage in petty spats here, regardless of how wrong or annoying you find other comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry. I lost my head there for a sec, most of my posts are more constructive/on-topic than that (I'd like to think). I'll try to be better going to forward.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#67

Post by atonse » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

throwahey wrote: post #14

atonse wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Until literally 3 days ago I held exactly your same view "why don't they just become Apple authorized repair shops?" Well, apparently Apple actually restricts the repairs you can do. For example, if you have water damage, you aren't allowed to just fix the actual components (capacitors, etc) that blew, you have to replace the whole board, resulting in much higher costs and eWaste for customers.…

I would take anything Rossman says with a grain of salt, he clearly has a personal vendetta against Apple. Further, Apple products are almost entirely recyclable, up to and including the packaging. As long as they are properly disposed of, you wouldn't be producing additional waste. And you are assuming that "flash" and "sexy" serve a single, vapid purpose. The designs of their products are as compact and space effic…

Louis Rossmann, Jessa Jones, these are all people I'm aware of at least on YouTube that are people who truly care about teaching the public how to do a lot of their own repairs.

I can tell you, I'm a software guy. And I was absolutely intimidated by circuit boards, until I found the world of electronics repairs on Youtube (EEVBlog too). Now I have fixed two power supplies and a pair of headphones. In all those cases, I was able to get parts easily from third parties (and for my headphones, I got cheap replacement parts from AudioTechnica themselves).

I am delighted to have rediscovered this part of my skills that I lost in my teens when I fell in love with software development.

Yet I still can't get a genuine apple battery to replace on my phone. I've successfully replaced batteries on about 5 iPhones now, but they were all shady battery replacements on Amazon. Frankly I'm just annoyed that Apple doesn't make these parts available.

Look at the backlog for battery replacements now. If you get it from Apple, there is now a monthslong wait-list at the genius bar because they've created their own bottleneck.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#68

Post by vkou » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #47

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

> They want people who bought iPhone to have the best experience they prepared for them.

Since when is buying a deliberately un-maintainable device 'the best experience'?

I would call that anti-user.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#69

Post by yitchelle » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #47

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

> They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them.

Adding further to this, Apple also wants 100% control over that experience and how that experience is deployed, including how and what can be repaired.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#70

Post by bluescrn » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #33

ksk wrote: post #27

I worry they're going to come after us programmers next. Only "authorized" programmers will get the access code required to change anything. Microsoft, Apple, Dell, etc will control the access codes. "Programming is hard, and these untrained self-taught programmers can mess up your machine, they might install malware, or they might be hackers, or they might overclock your CPU and damage it, or they might use the syst…

Isn't this exactly how iOS works currently? You literally cannot develop for it without signing an Apple contract (even non-App store apps require a user account/agreement).

And with rumours of Apple moving to ARM chips for their laptops, they could well try to take the opportunity to lock out unsigned code entirely...

Before long they could even choose to make you buy an expensive Mac Pro or iMac Pro, or even require an 'iOS dev kit' if you want to develop for their platform.

And if Microsoft had succeeded in the mobile/tablet space, they'd be doing exactly the same...