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Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

theguardian.com

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Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#131

Post by yters »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #123
yters wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STDs, unplanned pregnancies, any number of horrible things men might do to the prostitutes, the psychological abuse of having one's body be treated as an instrument for another's pleasure, of having one's humanity be reduced to being a sex doll.

I don't mean to diminish the hardships of prostitution. But its a matter of degree, isn't it? What performance artist isn't reduced to an instrument for another?

The body is an especially intimate part of one's being. To denigrate it to be another's tool is no different than slavery, even if one receives financial recompense.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#132

Post by Freestyler_3 »

yters wrote: post #91

It's interesting seeing all the men supporting 'sex work' when it is the woman who is left to deal with the repercussions of her body being used and abused for money. The real problem is not the crack down, but the social forces that make women feel like this is the only source of income available to them, and the dirtbag men who take advantage of them. This does not boost my opinion of internet "intellectuals", nor…

Let's just ignore all the women who want to do this work, to protect the few who didn't want to but felt like it was the only way to make ends meet.

But yes, I am sure people generally agree that the women who don't want to be sex workers should have other options (or be made aware of options).

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#133

Post by yters »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #129
yters wrote: post #91

It's interesting seeing all the men supporting 'sex work' when it is the woman who is left to deal with the repercussions of her body being used and abused for money. The real problem is not the crack down, but the social forces that make women feel like this is the only source of income available to them, and the dirtbag men who take advantage of them. This does not boost my opinion of internet "intellectuals", nor…

I am male and expressed an opinion that prostitution should be legal. But I have no desire to ever actually use such a service personally. My opinion is based largely on the fact that there are plenty of women who want to do this, or particularly enjoy it, as well as the unfortunate cases of people who feel they have no other choice. In either of those cases, punishing the people who are in this industry is wrong.

Punishment is a legitimate disincentive. Are there going to be fewer prostitutes when it is safe and easy? If the field is inherently injurious to women, why should we incentivize women to become prostitutes in any way?

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#134

Post by rosser »

yters wrote: post #120
rosser wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of them. Some women (and some men!) consciously and specifically choose to engage in sex work. The way we're trying to "protect" the people being trafficked into sex work is putting them, and the ones who do it voluntarily, in even more danger. Legalizing and regulating sex work protects them all so much more, but entirely too many of us would rather moralize about others' choices than approach the problem wi…

Let's imagine a world where prostitution is entirely legalized and regulated. We still have rampant STDs, unplanned pregnancies, the dehumanizing of women, etc. The field itself is inherently destructive to all participants.

> The field itself is inherently destructive to all participants.

This is the language of moralizing, not of problem solving. You aren't interested in making anything better; you're interested in making sure everyone knows how "bad" you think this thing is.

The thing is: no-one's arguing there's badness here, just over what the bad and not-bad parts are. You aren't going to convince people that it's all bad, going about it the way you are, though.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#135

Post by esarbe »

yters wrote: post #122
esarbe wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it seem as if there was an universal feminist agreement that sex work should be illegal. It's not. There are plenty (female) hard-core 2nd-wave feminists that are all for legalization of prostitution, citing self-empowerment, economic empowerment and the acceptance of female sexuality.

You fail to distinguish between what people who call themselves "feminists" want, and what actually is in the best interest of women. If feminists suddenly started saying forced teenage marriages to abusive old men was in the best interest of women, they'd be wrong. Same in the case of prostitution.

Sorry, but now you've lost me.

You say -- to paraphrase -- 'the True Feminist only speaks what's good for women and only I decide what's good for women'. That's not an argument, it's a dogma.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#136

Post by yters »

esarbe wrote: post #127
yters wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STDs, unplanned pregnancies, any number of horrible things men might do to the prostitutes, the psychological abuse of having one's body be treated as an instrument for another's pleasure, of having one's humanity be reduced to being a sex doll.

All these issues -- potential physical and mental problems -- you cite apply to other professions as well. Why treat prostitution any different? Obviously there's a need for this kind of work. Why not make sure that at least the workers doing this kind of job enjoy the same protection as other workers?

Other professions are legitimate needs. Such as soldiers, police, firefighters. A society needs them to function well.

Prostitution destroys society. It breaks up families. It leads to fatherless children. It spreads STDs. It teaches men to treat women as sex objects. It denigrates sex in general to pleasure instead of its main purpose of creating the next generation.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#137

Post by yters »

Freestyler_3 wrote: post #132
yters wrote: post #91

It's interesting seeing all the men supporting 'sex work' when it is the woman who is left to deal with the repercussions of her body being used and abused for money. The real problem is not the crack down, but the social forces that make women feel like this is the only source of income available to them, and the dirtbag men who take advantage of them. This does not boost my opinion of internet "intellectuals", nor…

Let's just ignore all the women who want to do this work, to protect the few who didn't want to but felt like it was the only way to make ends meet. But yes, I am sure people generally agree that the women who don't want to be sex workers should have other options (or be made aware of options).

Even if someone wants to do something, that doesn't mean it is good for them. We as a society should not incentivize people to do self harm, even if the person chooses the self harm. It is essentially incentivizing women to commit suicide.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#138

Post by commandlinefan »

yters wrote: post #131
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to diminish the hardships of prostitution. But its a matter of degree, isn't it? What performance artist isn't reduced to an instrument for another?

The body is an especially intimate part of one's being. To denigrate it to be another's tool is no different than slavery, even if one receives financial recompense.

Don't you think that should be up to the owner of that body, rather than you?

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#139

Post by yters »

orthecreedence wrote: post #124
yters wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's imagine a world where prostitution is entirely legalized and regulated. We still have rampant STDs, unplanned pregnancies, the dehumanizing of women, etc. The field itself is inherently destructive to all participants.

Right. So we have what we have now, but sex workers, in general, are much safer. Seems like a win to me. It's fine if you don't like prostitution, but what is your practical proposed solution for erradicating it?

There are plenty of alternatives. Provide these women with clear alternatives. Provide significant punishment for those who engage in prostitution, be it the users, the pimps, the prostitutes, the establishments, etc. In general, eradicate the culture of female objectification, primarily by eliminating porn. Encourage people to form committed families. Many, many, alternatives to making prostitution easier.

As human beings, we don't encourage other human beings to continue destroying themselves, just because that course of action is easiest. We try to save them from their self destructive course. We do not enable self destruction.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#140

Post by [deleted] »

yters wrote: post #117
commandlinefan wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

abuse? That's a bit of a stretch.

STDs, unplanned pregnancies, any number of horrible things men might do to the prostitutes, the psychological abuse of having one's body be treated as an instrument for another's pleasure, of having one's humanity be reduced to being a sex doll.

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