It's interesting seeing all the men supporting 'sex work' when it is the woman who is left to deal with the repercussions of her body being used and abused for money. The real problem is not the crack down, but the social forces that make women feel like this is the only source of income available to them, and the dirtbag men who take advantage of them. This does not boost my opinion of internet "intellectuals", nor of the HN community who seem largely in favor of taking advantage of women in this way.
Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
91–100 of 225 posts
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
>the sole interest in banning it appears to be religion If you can't think of any moral hazards around prostitution, then I don't believe that you are trying very hard. >I don't think Christian views should be the determining factor in our legislature Is Christianity the only moral system that looks poorly upon prostitution?
There are plenty of moral hazards around prostitution, and banning it outright makes all of them worse . It makes the women involved criminals and deprives them of legal protection when they're abused. The only reason to make prostitution a crime is if you think prostitutes themselves are committing evil. That is 100% a religious position with no rational support.
>makes all of them worse
This seems like a pretty outrageous claim. It seems obvious that:
1) There are moral hazards surrounding prostitution
2) The legal status of prostitution has a negative effect on the number of people participating in it.
So while legalizing prostitution certainly could (and anecdotally would) negate some of the hazards, to say that it would negate all of them seems foolish, or at the very least extremely poorly reasoned.
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Governmental attempts to suppress "immoral" but natural human behavior has been tried for thousands of years and has never worked. I.e. attempts to stop: * drinking * gambling * prostitution * drugs * adultery * homosexuality * lending money * black markets
It obviously hasn't stopped these problems from ever happening, but do you have evidence that the policies are not effective at all?
Drinking went up during Prohibition.
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#94I think the missing discussion is that some bad law exists, but that SESTA/FOSTA is not that bad law: Websites should not be immune to prosecution for intentionally facilitating criminal activity. Section 230 is a bad thing and it going away is a good thing. Headlines I've seen like "sex workers are the canary in the coal mine for free speech" are not really accurate, because this is about activity which is and has b…
> Section 230 is a bad thing and it going away is a good thing The last 20 years of web innovation begs to differ. Killing user-generated content will make us all worse off.
I vehemently disagree with the rhetoric of the tech companies that holding them legally responsible for willful participation in criminal activity will "kill user-generated content".
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#95I think the missing discussion is that some bad law exists, but that SESTA/FOSTA is not that bad law: Websites should not be immune to prosecution for intentionally facilitating criminal activity. Section 230 is a bad thing and it going away is a good thing. Headlines I've seen like "sex workers are the canary in the coal mine for free speech" are not really accurate, because this is about activity which is and has b…
>the sole interest in banning it appears to be religion If you can't think of any moral hazards around prostitution, then I don't believe that you are trying very hard. >I don't think Christian views should be the determining factor in our legislature Is Christianity the only moral system that looks poorly upon prostitution?
Christianity certainly isn't the "only moral system" that frowns on prostitution, but I'd argue it's likely the primary one responsible for rendering it illegal in the US.
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do we take sex so seriously? What's wrong with trivializing it? We don't make a big deal about kissing, or playing golf? Animals often fuck without consent (although most other mammals have mating sessions that last less than 15 seconds). There is a really interesting dynamic in humans where we have either evolved or socially constructed (or both) this very strong sense of importance (and also shame) around sex.…
Sex is where new people come from. Once a society loses this perspective it dies.
It is well worth reserving some things from being subsumed directly by the economic system. I don't understand the distinction ihsw2 is trying to make with the repeated argument about removal of consent, but I would agree if they simply were arguing that human sex shouldn't be commodified.
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the law will always encapsulate some idea of morality. You've already suggested some places where US law restricts contracts that might seem to be between consenting adults. It's a moral choice for the law to restrict you from "selling your organs, selling yourself into slavery, highly dangerous drugs etc." I think there's good reason for the law to be protective, because merely allowing some contracts to be…
>merely allowing some contracts to be valid, will allow large power-discrepancies to effectively force people into them. I think this ie consistent with my original point: society should not allow exploitation of people who are simply trying to survive.
Yes and I agree, but I think even that is a cultural/moral judgement (libertarians would disagree I think), and what contracts should fall into the "exploitative" category is definitely cultural.
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#98I hate to use the argument but it's really sad that in 2018 we're still trying to make voluntary sex work illegal when every studies show that it 1) doesn't work and 2) makes everything worse for everyone involved. Also, the fact that the very president is known to have used prostitutes and that Washington politicians are well known to be big customers makes this hypocrisy really infuriating.
it's also just an absurd restriction from a perspective that values individual liberty. "my body, my choice" "consenting adults" -- all that goes out the window when it's sex for cash? it makes no sense.
Honest question: if people wanted to participate in fights to the death where the winner gets an absurd amount of money, should that be legal? If not, then whats that defining difference? If so, what long term effect do you think this will have?
Again, I'm asking because I dont know. To me, I think the above example would cause a lot of public harm in that people would be pressured into giving up their lives to potentially save their families from poverty. But at the same time, that reasoning could be applied to prostitution. But then again, with prostitution, you can always stop.
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that reasoning all dangerous jobs should be off limits to poor people. Young people shouldn't be able to register for military service (especially during wars when "bonuses" are high). Poor people shouldn't be allowed to work as garbage collectors (garbage collectors have a higher fatality rate than law enforcement). The list could go on...
There are degrees of exploitation and levels of compulsion throughout all society. This doesn't mean that people have to be either okay with all exploitation and compulsion or none at all.
I would like to thank both you, and the parent for adding valuable points of views in a complicated debate in a concise and civil manner. I had had an "I agree" and "On the other hand" moment. For me this illustrated the complexity of the topic. There is no easy answer, and all who say it is simple, are probably wrong.
Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sex is where new people come from. Once a society loses this perspective it dies.
It is well worth reserving some things from being subsumed directly by the economic system. I don't understand the distinction ihsw2 is trying to make with the repeated argument about removal of consent, but I would agree if they simply were arguing that human sex shouldn't be commodified.
Economic and societal forces are making these women let men use their bodies. In form it looks different than traditional rape, but in function it is no different. Women are being forced to let complete strangers abuse their bodies in the most intimate ways possible.