111–120 of 225 posts
What kind of 'feminist' community is HN when men want women to let strangers abuse their bodies? 'Feminist' men are merely cads taking advantage of women using politically correct language. Anyways, if this is the sort of 'pro-women' environment HN wants to foster, count me out.
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By that reasoning all dangerous jobs should be off limits to poor people. Young people shouldn't be able to register for military service (especially during wars when "bonuses" are high). Poor people shouldn't be allowed to work as garbage collectors (garbage collectors have a higher fatality rate than law enforcement). The list could go on...
There are degrees of exploitation and levels of compulsion throughout all society. This doesn't mean that people have to be either okay with all exploitation and compulsion or none at all.
[0] Fast Food Nation (I think it's written about in Chapter 8 "The Most Dangerous Job").
It's interesting seeing all the men supporting 'sex work' when it is the woman who is left to deal with the repercussions of her body being used and abused for money. The real problem is not the crack down, but the social forces that make women feel like this is the only source of income available to them, and the dirtbag men who take advantage of them. This does not boost my opinion of internet "intellectuals", nor…
Sex work is work. Just like a job in a mine or on an oil rig it might be an unhealthy, dangerous job with serious health repercussions. But it's a job nonetheless. Would I prefer a world where men didn't have to waste their health in mines and women theirs in prostitution? Sure, I'm all for a UBI. But it is hypocrisy to treat these professions and the health implications they have as any different.
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Prostitution trivializes sex by converting it to an activity fueled by capitalist incentives, forcing women to transfer control to her client rather than keeping it in her individual control. It is definitely different in that consent is removed by economic force rather than physical force.
Why do we take sex so seriously? What's wrong with trivializing it? We don't make a big deal about kissing, or playing golf? Animals often fuck without consent (although most other mammals have mating sessions that last less than 15 seconds). There is a really interesting dynamic in humans where we have either evolved or socially constructed (or both) this very strong sense of importance (and also shame) around sex.…
... are you advocating non-consensual sex should be legal?[1] I don't think so, but I'm not really sure how "animals have non-consensual sex" really supports anything related to this argument.
[1] To be clear, there are people on various places on Reddit that do advocate for non-consensual sex to be legalized... as a measure to "prevent rape." I kid you not.
What kind of 'feminist' community is HN when men want women to let strangers abuse their bodies? 'Feminist' men are merely cads taking advantage of women using politically correct language. Anyways, if this is the sort of 'pro-women' environment HN wants to foster, count me out.
It's not. There are plenty (female) hard-core 2nd-wave feminists that are all for legalization of prostitution, citing self-empowerment, economic empowerment and the acceptance of female sexuality.
I think the missing discussion is that some bad law exists, but that SESTA/FOSTA is not that bad law: Websites should not be immune to prosecution for intentionally facilitating criminal activity. Section 230 is a bad thing and it going away is a good thing. Headlines I've seen like "sex workers are the canary in the coal mine for free speech" are not really accurate, because this is about activity which is and has b…
What's even more obnoxious is the hypocritical legality of pornography in the US. All of the problems created by prostitution are present in the porn industry, somehow we manage to overlook this aspect though.
What kind of 'feminist' community is HN when men want women to let strangers abuse their bodies? 'Feminist' men are merely cads taking advantage of women using politically correct language. Anyways, if this is the sort of 'pro-women' environment HN wants to foster, count me out.
abuse? That's a bit of a stretch.
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Sex work is work. Just like a job in a mine or on an oil rig it might be an unhealthy, dangerous job with serious health repercussions. But it's a job nonetheless. Would I prefer a world where men didn't have to waste their health in mines and women theirs in prostitution? Sure, I'm all for a UBI. But it is hypocrisy to treat these professions and the health implications they have as any different.
Mining is a legitimate need. Men don't need prostitutes. What men need is to treat women as equal human beings, and not a vessel for their lusts.
Sexual intercourse is as much a necessity as is mining. More so, I'd say. Humans are not mining machines, they are reproduction machines. To deny this is to deny human nature. Also, sex in and in itself has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. It's simply a physical act.
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Economic and societal forces are making these women let men use their bodies. In form it looks different than traditional rape, but in function it is no different. Women are being forced to let complete strangers abuse their bodies in the most intimate ways possible.
Not all of them. Some women (and some men!) consciously and specifically choose to engage in sex work. The way we're trying to "protect" the people being trafficked into sex work is putting them, and the ones who do it voluntarily, in even more danger. Legalizing and regulating sex work protects them all so much more, but entirely too many of us would rather moralize about others' choices than approach the problem wi…
Yep. I'm seeing many, many comments about how prositution is bad. I'm not seeing any that suggest workable alternatives. Most seem to be socialist-leaning (attaching market incentive to sex is bad), but we don't have socialism, and sex workers need protection now.
Ok, so whether or not we agree that prostitution is bad, what do we do about it? I think legalizing/regulating makes a lot more sex workers a lot safer. Those people were going to be doing sex work anyway, but now they have the state-level protections a plumber or a banker have.
Once that's done, then we can argue the morality of it to death.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Economic and societal forces are making these women let men use their bodies. In form it looks different than traditional rape, but in function it is no different. Women are being forced to let complete strangers abuse their bodies in the most intimate ways possible.
Not all of them. Some women (and some men!) consciously and specifically choose to engage in sex work. The way we're trying to "protect" the people being trafficked into sex work is putting them, and the ones who do it voluntarily, in even more danger. Legalizing and regulating sex work protects them all so much more, but entirely too many of us would rather moralize about others' choices than approach the problem wi…