Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#271

Post by crusso » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 12:30 PM UTC

J-dawg wrote: post #269

the_grue wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If even PhD's can't be expected to adhere to basic standards of intellectual honesty and critical thinking, then how can we ever expect the general society to grow up and realize the value of these things? How can we, the enlightened few (I say this half-seriously, of course, because obviously I am not without fault myself), ever expect to be able to lead a logical conversation with most normal folks we encounter in…

This is a fantastic comment. I've met several people who treat my tendency to value critical thought as if it's nothing more than a quirky personality trait, and acting based on emotions and feelings is just as valid. It's infuriating.

I tend to focus on intellectual integrity in argumentation. But when I talk to most people about "intellectual integrity" or "intellectual honesty", I think that they tune me out. Those terms don't really register.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#272

Post by brianmcc » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

ShadowFaxSam wrote: post #116

freehunter wrote: post #106

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>You say that women in their 20s are better at something than men in their 20s I don't know what comment you read, but the comment I read said nothing remotely close to this. If you want to paraphrase what they said, it'd be more like "the very small sample of women I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace were better prepared for the job than the very small sample of men I was…

Not trying to drum up any controversy and I fully admit it is a small sample size. As someone who falls in the demographic "Under 30 and Living in a Metropolitan City" I feel comfortable sharing some of my own personal and my friends experiences in their particular office as well. The dominant news story has always been the story women earn 80 percent less than men, but that was difficult to reconcile compared to wha…

Don't worry your intent was clear - some people simply read what they want/expect to read, but some of us are still able to recognise a personal observation.

Funny: reading HN comments I increasingly get the feeling a lot of folks aren't correctly reading or comprehending what's been written. Whether it's deliberate to support a strawman or a result of reading too quickly or something else I don't know but I often read a response and notice "hang on, that's really NOT what OP was saying...".

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#273

Post by belorn » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

cdmcmahon wrote: post #260

chemochemo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed -- if they aren't having the same _access_, it is discrimination. But once again, nothing in the study points to that. Do you believe men don't have access to jobs in the field of nursing? On average, women outnumber men 9.5 to 1 in nursing in the US. [0] [0] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/human-capital-and-risk...

I think nursing may be a field where certain stereotypes, etc. keep the gender balance of the working population a certain way. And I think you correctly point out that men do have _access_ to the field of nursing so it’s not ad much of a problem per se. That said, the reason I think you can say men aren’t denied access is because you don’t have hordes of men revealing patterns of regular and constant discrimination,…

A few years ago there was a nice government report here in Sweden on gender segregation for teachers, and guess what they wrote? Hordes of men revealing patterns of regular and constant discrimination, very similar to that in technological fields today, and cited research which points that any work place which is dominated by a single gender has a tendency to create a discriminating culture against the minority.

I would bet that if one looked at the drop rates of male nurse students it will look very similar to that of female programming students. If one looked at the reason cited why they decide to drop it will align to very similar answer, where the minority will cite an increase self-doubt and low support. If one looked at the rate people leave the field after working the first year, again we will likely find identical reason for programmers where many will citing clashing work culture as a top reason for leaving the profession. Looking at those staying after 3-4 year, again there is a similar pattern where the minority will move towards specialization (sub groups of the profession) where there is a higher ratio of members of the minority.

We have medical specializations which have a gender segregation that is above 99%, where for every person of the minority gender there is several hundreds of the majority. Why do such extreme segregation exist where both men and women has equal access to the same profession?

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#274

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

Can_Not wrote: post #251

logfromblammo wrote: post #247

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I was trying to be diplomatic, as this is a matter heavily influenced by one's political beliefs, and somewhat resistant to the application of historical facts--such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Killing Fields, Gulag Archipelago, Great Leap Forward, and Juche. A certain number of socialist believers must be retained to keep a system of unequal property from running away into oligarchic plutocracy. It's like putting a…

It's not like the other side of the political spectrum takes their crimes seriously: the trail of tears, Churchill's starving of 2 million Indians, the Holocaust (which somehow gets misplaced onto socialism even though Hitler purged the socialists in his party years before it started), the African slave trade, Belgian Kongo, 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile, Contras in Nicaragua, CIA funding of Pol Pot and th…

A certain number of selfish and ambitious property-believers must be retained in a system of equal distribution, in order to keep the pendulum from swinging too far in that direction.

Ideological purity is murder. Don't waste your intellect arguing over the various types of extremism.

If there were no socialists, capitalists would be living in a hellish dystopia. If there were no capitalists, socialists would be living in a hellish dystopia. So just stick the chocolate in the peanut butter (or put the peanut butter in the chocolate) and enjoy your mixed economic system.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#275

Post by weberc2 » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

JPGalt wrote: post #226

weberc2 wrote: post #56

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Implicit bias or confirmation bias?

I would say it could be either but none the less bias is a relevant variable that should always be considered. For example, studies on say smoking or the health benefits of a pharmaceutical performed by a tobacco company or big pharma respectively are openly and voraciously discredited as bias which they should be. Anything relating to social justice of any sort is swallowed as irrefutable fact without a second thoug…

> People have put their political subscription above everything else and it is sickening.

Agreed.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#276

Post by ShadowFaxSam » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 9:23 AM UTC

throwawayyx96 wrote: post #147

ShadowFaxSam wrote: post #122

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Always appreciate different news sources and ways to further educate myself. >It depends on the job. What you say applies mainly to Twitter-empowered employees at consumer-facing tech companies. It may depend on the job, one of them falls into the consumer facing tech company bucket (marketing). However my other job was an analyst role at a Financial Services company which you typically expect to be male dominated an…

You worked as a financial analyst but yet don't seem to grasp the monumental difference between "women earn 80 percent less than men", which you cited above as the common narrative, and "women earn 80 percent of what men earn" or "women earn 20 percent less than men", which are two accurate descriptions of the common narrative.

I have to laugh at this because I definitely noticed my error after I posted this. I was waiting for someone to comment on the mathematical error.

Thank you, yes I understand how percentages work. Tip of the hat to you.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#277

Post by ShadowFaxSam » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 9:44 AM UTC

brianmcc wrote: post #272

ShadowFaxSam wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to drum up any controversy and I fully admit it is a small sample size. As someone who falls in the demographic "Under 30 and Living in a Metropolitan City" I feel comfortable sharing some of my own personal and my friends experiences in their particular office as well. The dominant news story has always been the story women earn 80 percent less than men, but that was difficult to reconcile compared to wha…

Don't worry your intent was clear - some people simply read what they want/expect to read, but some of us are still able to recognise a personal observation. Funny: reading HN comments I increasingly get the feeling a lot of folks aren't correctly reading or comprehending what's been written. Whether it's deliberate to support a strawman or a result of reading too quickly or something else I don't know but I often re…

Thank you for this. I couldn't agree more with this in regards to some comments here.

Especially when people share personal observations on a study that includes data, yet people cry "small sample size!".

Of course its a small sample size, it's a personal experience of one.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#278

Post by tudelo » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

cdmcmahon wrote: post #261

tudelo wrote: post #158

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Why can't it be a combination of both, ignoring compensation? Why can't one sex have a higher propensity towards a profession than the other, independent of compensation? It seems to me that it is a complex issue that has a lot more factors than simply discrimination.

I suppose it can be. The natural follow up is what you think it is about, say, engineering or law or finance or [insert field here] that men have a higher propensity toward? And why is it that nearly all of the most lucrative and powerful fields are the ones that men have a higher propensity towards? Trying to answer these gets prett hairy (and depending on your answers, very revealing about yourself) if you are tryi…

Maybe men and women are not driven to accomplish the same goals. For example, take a look at the StackOverflow developer survey. There is certainly a difference in what men consider valuable for a job and what women consider valuable given that specific data point. I don't wish to make broad assumptions about every man or every woman. I also don't think to point out these things has much to do with discrimination. Men and women have been evolving for a lot longer than men and women have been working in desks next to each other... it's no simple feat to coexist when the rules of the game are not clear. I think it only gets hairy if you don't fundamentally think there is a difference between a man and a woman, really the rest follows axiomatically.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#279

Post by d0lph » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

sudoke wrote: post #237

d0lph wrote: post #229

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Why is it sexist to suggest that women might prefer different careers from men?

Because suggestion that men and women in general are different is criminally sexist. It's what got us here in the first place. People(republicans) need to get it through their heads that there are NO differences between men and women, period.

Do you have any evidence for this?

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#280

Post by sudoke » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:33 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #241

sudoke wrote: post #134

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Healthcare requires the time and resources of healthcare professionals, and no one has the RIGHT to the time or resources of other people. We abolished slavery in this country, I'm sick of people like you arguing to bring it back.

We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Would you please not create accounts to do that with? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Why was I banned?