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It's incredible to me that so many people think that free markets actually exist.
It does... Look at the website you're on. Ycombinator is an entrepreneurer's forum
Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
141–150 of 280 posts
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Women are paid less not because their jobs are worth less, but because employers can get away with paying them leas. There are values other than market value. Society needs both nurses and engineers. Women and men should be equal not just in opportunity, but in outcome (ie, economic power). In addition, women are usually the primary caregiver and disproportionately spend more time doing domestic labour (raising child…
"Women (or whomever is the primary caregiver in a family or does more domestic labor at home) should be paid more for fewer hours in the workplace." Why should anyone be compensated anything for routine life-management work? What you're asking is akin to saying everyone should be paid to sleep. Sleeping, bathing, eating, maintaining the home -- these are all parts of functioning as a human. Taking care of children is…
Because unless you’re an antinatalist, some people having children is socially necessary. If the next generation had no children, society would collapse. Also, many women have unplanned pregnancies.
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. In a world of such pervasive intellectual dishonesty, what's the best course of action? While I admire the people and arguments that have the most intellectual integrity, it seems that demagoguery just works better when it comes to shaping public policy. At the end of the day, the problem is that most people (voters) wouldn't even begin to understand or appreciate the distinction between demagoguery and intellec…
The best way around this is to have education. Especially on topics like statistics literacy (not really just statistics, but how to read them), journalism, lobbyism and propaganda. These things should be taught in high school. Taking apart arguments in old propaganda (where there is less political motive) and encouraging people to look out for new propaganda. Of course it doesn't seem the government would be interes…
> The best way around this is to have education
I agree completely, but would education really fix the 20% gender pay gap myth?
I find it very difficult to believe that most of the people who continually reinforce this myth actually believe it to be true. They simply can't all be that ill-educated and/or stupid. And yet the same articles appear in the media every single year. It's become one of those taboo subjects where dogma trumps facts.
The worst part is that it stifles discussion of the earnings gap that actually does exist, and stops us from having meaningful conversations about society's expectations of both men and women.
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sadly "equal pay" means whatever you want it to mean. Exactly this. At a fundamental level every individual has an infinite number of "dimensions" (in ML parlance) associated with him, and "equal pay" people or groups will try and convince you that expected pay should be the same over a certain subset of dimensions while ignoring all the others. Invariably they will pick the most beneficial to that particular perso…
You cannot dismiss rigorous statistical analysis by arguing it can never encompass the full dimensions of the data. Of course it can't. The map is not the territory; it is a useful way to find our way around it. Ignoring the map is perilous, if not arrogant, even though it is merely a flawed representation of the real truth. You might argue that a specific study or meta-analysis contains a bias or misinterpretation,…
Isn't that why we have 'replication crisis' in fields that 'can never encompass the full dimensions of the data'
Doesn't replication crisis prove 'that all studies of complex topics are invalid simply because their topics are complex.'
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#145Real life stubbornly resists all attempts to make it more fair . An 8% difference in either direction is acceptable to me. It's good enough to tolerate until it's worth revisiting for further improvements. So now that we have the gender pay gap (almost) sorted out, perhaps we should tackle a problem more likely to cause societal problems: the increasing measures of wealth inequality.
Why is wealth inequality a problem? People should be free to pursue maximum compensation for their skills and abilities, not be limited because they are better at somethings than other people.
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
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It's incredible to me that so many Americans consider free market as an ideal. They substitute compassion and cooperation with a superficial version of competition and cruelty.
The idea that the free market is cruel is skewed. It's clear you don't value liberty or personal responsibility with that sort of perspective. Nothing in this world is owed or guaranteed to you, and forcing people to cooperate with you is immoral but you would disagree.
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Peg Tyre wrote the classic book on this 10 years ago: https://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Boys-Surprising-Problems-Educ... It hasn't gotten a huge amount of follow-up traction in schools though. Also The New Jim Crow for a racial perspective that hits black men's employment prospects pretty hard. https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblind... BTW for folks who are concerned that feminist or women don't ca…
Always appreciate different news sources and ways to further educate myself. >It depends on the job. What you say applies mainly to Twitter-empowered employees at consumer-facing tech companies. It may depend on the job, one of them falls into the consumer facing tech company bucket (marketing). However my other job was an analyst role at a Financial Services company which you typically expect to be male dominated an…
You worked as a financial analyst but yet don't seem to grasp the monumental difference between "women earn 80 percent less than men", which you cited above as the common narrative, and "women earn 80 percent of what men earn" or "women earn 20 percent less than men", which are two accurate descriptions of the common narrative.
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you can justify your position "these young women were better prepared and organised than their male counterpart in their 20's". You say that women in their 20s are better at something than men in their 20s. I believe you know this is indefensible and if you would say the reverse you would get kicked out of your job.
>You say that women in their 20s are better at something than men in their 20s I don't know what comment you read, but the comment I read said nothing remotely close to this. If you want to paraphrase what they said, it'd be more like "the very small sample of women I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace were better prepared for the job than the very small sample of men I was…
the very small sample of men I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace were better programmers than the very small sample of women I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Writing off people you disagree with as ignorant doesn't really help anything. And even if you're right, I'm not interested in a society devoid of compassion.
I don't want to help anything. People that don't understand how their system works will learn the hard way regardless of what I say or what you claim to be interested in.
Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
His point is that your need for privacy is preventing group wins. You want to avoid a bit of shame or envy but by making this decision we, as employees, lose a lot of our leverage. You wouldn’t have to negotiate a better salary if it would be obvious that you are underpaid.
It would also prevent raises.
You're assuming that I'm a world were transparency goes up, good negotiators go extinct? :)