Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 370 posts

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#291

Post by jimmies »

ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

Totally agree. My mom wouldn't know that damn dialog has two buttons. This is the epitome of “we’re shitty by default, but if you know your way around our system, then you’re fine.” Yeah... how about no?

Just wrote about it here: http://www.tnhh.net/posts/shitty-by-default.html

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#292

Post by cowkingdeluxe »

HenryBemis wrote: post #168
adventured wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. They have the money, people and time to throw at compliance. GDPR won't dent Facebook in the least. They'll bend where they have to, and no further. They'll pay occasional fines and that won't matter either. If you take it to an extreme and the only thing they can do is show non-personalized advertising and do zero tracking, they'll still print billions in profit in the EU market. That's what ownin…

"occasional fines"? Living in EU, and I am thrilled at the party we will have, when 1-2 million people/facebook users will send this letter to FB [1]. I strongly believe that this will hurt them financially (where it actually matters/hurts). I (try to) sinkhole every tracker, advertiser etc. on my PC and jailbroken iphone. I am sure that I don't block every one, but 90% is better than 0%. It may keep me busy, but whe…

Do you think it will be possible for US citizens to take advantage of GDPR by just saying they live or are a citizen of the EU?

Will Facebook even check or will they just play it safe and accept most requests?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#293

Post by mtgx »

ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

We don't even know they always did this with permission, because in the past they didn't actually need permission for it, which could be why Facebook is trying to make such a big deal out saying that collecting call history and text is "normal" when they collect your contacts.

It was required in 8.0 to tell the users that they're collecting this data. So the question is, did they collect it before 8.0 w/o permission?

https://developer.android.com/about/versions/oreo/android-8....

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#294

Post by api »

akuji1993 wrote: post #129
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

I'm still completely convinced that this whole scandal will not damage Facebook a bit, in the long term. Yeah, the stock is going to be a bit lower for some weeks, some people will leave, but the largest part of the Facebook users has not even realised the scandal in full scale. They're not going anywhere, they're going to continue as is, since there really is not alternative for Facebook right now and tbh they would…

I'm afraid that I agree. Convenience and network effects are the two most awesomely powerful drivers of adoption and retention and Facebook has both.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#295

Post by aembleton »

I've just installed NetGuard [1] and found both Facebook and Messenger apps to be very chatty. I guess I expected that. But what suprised me is that my SMS app, Textra [2] was making calls to graph.facebook.com. I have paid for the app so there should be no need to contact Facebook to provide advertising.

As it is just there for SMS, I've completely removed it's access to the internet which is possible through NetGuard.

1. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.ne...

2. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.textra&hl=...

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#296

Post by lotsofpulp »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #282
lotsofpulp wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have international family/friends, WhatsApp is the most ubiquitous and easy to use option I’ve come across.

Honest question: Is it really? That can be just my network, but I've never stumbled upon anyone using WhatsApp here in Poland. I only know this name because I follow tech news. Almost everyone uses Facebook's Messenger, some people use Telegram, sometimes Hangouts, gamers use Discord, techies Signal or Jabber and that's pretty much it.

Of course, my observations are limited to me and I don't have any numbers. My interactions are with people in Brazil/US/UK/Australia/India/South Africa/Kenya/Spain/Central America.

I know WeChat is more popular in East Asia, and I know a few Telegram/Signal users, but I can find about almost everyone on WhatsApp.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#297

Post by saas_co_de »

kingofhdds wrote: post #271
OliverJones wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the largest part of the Facebook users has not even > realized the scandal in full scale. Exactly. That's why they must be regulated. Pharma companies, food companies, and airlines, to mention three, have the same sorts of characteristics in their businesses. Examples: Airlines have regulations because the typical user has no way to evaluate maintenance regimes or navigation procedures. The big information-hooverin…

No, in fact, airlines have regulations, because big flying objects loaded with fuel are kinda seriously dangerous, and can kill (not in un*x console meaning of the word) lots of people at once. Very unlike social platforms, to be fair. If regulations were introduced because of users not knowing what's good and beautiful, believe me, IT industry would be the most regulated thing in the world.

> Very unlike social platforms

a social media platform that can be used to organize and manipulate hundreds of millions of people globally is far more dangerous than any airplane.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#298

Post by yndoendo »

BDGC wrote: post #205
akuji1993 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still completely convinced that this whole scandal will not damage Facebook a bit, in the long term. Yeah, the stock is going to be a bit lower for some weeks, some people will leave, but the largest part of the Facebook users has not even realised the scandal in full scale. They're not going anywhere, they're going to continue as is, since there really is not alternative for Facebook right now and tbh they would…

Anecdote here: I was talking to a college student who hadn’t heard about the whole Cambridge Analytica to-do. Why? She uses Facebook to check the news, and unsurprisingly it wasn’t coming up on trending news.

That is the whole issue, using one source for news when knowing any source has a percent of bias. Only way around the issue to keep an open mind and actually view new sources that you might or might not like to get a whole picture.

Don't like CNN nor FOX but still skim them for news, articles not TV nor videos.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#299

Post by rock_hard »

dm319 wrote: post #154
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

I think the business sector needs to have a look at the way consent is done in the medical field, where huge terms and conditions with nasty stuff hidden away isn't ok. The concept in medicine is that consent for treatment is done in a simple way that encompasses things that are commonly an issue (but often a minor inconvenience), things that are rarely an issue but are disastrous, and things that might specifically…

And to be fair, Facebook was one of the first companies 10 years ago already that offered their terms in standard legalise as well as translated into common people speak!

They have done great things in that regard by pushing the whole industry forward

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#300

Post by jjrh »

randomsearch wrote: post #229
ams6110 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google+ were launching today, they might have a better chance. More people are interested in Facebook alternatives. At the time, Facebook had already supplanted MySpace and Google+ didn't offer anything attractive enough to switch again.

No point swapping Facebook for another advertising-driven social network in the same vein. If a company like Apple were running it and people were paying for it, that would be a different matter. Google have contributed to privacy issues, e.g. with poor permission management.

I'd say the big difference with google is they can treat a social network as a loss leader. Google has other (far more profitable) forms of privacy invading revenue sources, facebook doesn't.

It's not a ideal solution however. If as a society we have decided social networks are important a not for profit, or decentralised federated scheme is probably the way to go.

Post reply on HN