Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

technologyreview.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 441 posts

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#291

Post by RonanTheGrey »

matte_black wrote: post #163
noetic_techy wrote: post #107

This is going to sound a bit out there, but what if your brain is simply an antenna for your consciousness to come through from wherever. Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness, and not just a fancy quantum antenna.

If you've ever suffered from Depersonalization/Derealization disorder, it will become very clear that your mind and your consciousness are not the same thing at all . DP/DR is quite possibly the worst mental disorder you can ever fall into. It is the feeling where you are convinced everything around you is not real, you see people you know, you know they are significant, but they just feel like actors in a show and y…

I've experienced this as well. Incredibly disorienting, and yet honestly it is the most relaxed I have been in my entire life. It was nice, nothing mattering; nobody mattering; nothing. Freedom from the weight of my own mind, for just awhile.

I've tried for years to recreate the effect with no success.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#292

Post by dqpb »

yters wrote: post #272
kolpa wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both, obviously.

It seems that way on the surface. Both will wake up with the view that they are the true consciousness. Another variant is the concept that every decision we make we actually split into two universes, one making one decision and the other making the other decision. But, anyway the scenario is set up, the question is why does that particular brain have that particular consciousness? It is easier to see in the splittin…

You sound like you've thoroughly confused yourself.

If the mind is software then it can be duplicated. There is no dilemma here, and it's irrelevant what the copies think of it.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#293

Post by drcode »

caf wrote: post #250
noetic_techy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I have exact same thought. Don't get me wrong, I think consciousness arising from sufficient complexity is also very much a possible answer, and I don't discount it. I'm just not totally convinced that there isn't more too it. Until a general AI arises, I don't think I will be convinced, and even if it did, who's to say it inst still just an approximation? Multiple AI intelligence domains slapped together wit…

What if there's less to it? What if consciousness is just an illusion, "you" only really exist in the moment, and the feeling of a connection to the "you" of a moment ago and the "you" to come in the next moment doesn't reflect an actual continuing independent existence?

Yeah, this seems likely to be true, and also arguably really sad, since it means your consciousness essentially is "dying" every second. Fun times!

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#294

Post by mirimir »

kevindeasis wrote: post #279
whack wrote: post #277

Any sufficiently advanced technology that is capable of resurrecting your brain/consciousness, is also capable of subjecting your digital consciousness to eternal torture worse than anything experienced by Man thus far. If you haven't already, check out Black Mirror's last episode: Black Museum. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, even if there's only an infinitesimal chance of it happening. https://en.wikipedia.or…

There's also a similar scene in Altered Carbon

It's rather a key theme of the Kovach trilogy. Envoys get reconstructed to resist digital torture. "Get to the next screen."

Edit: The novels are much better than the Netflix videos. They are, in my opinion, crude hacks. Randomized and simplified. The virtual torture sequence in Altered Carbon is vastly more horrible than the one in the video. Even if I didn't care about spoilers, I'd hesitate to describe it here.

And if you like Kovach, check out Stover's Caine novels. He also wrote the Star Wars novels, but don't hold that against him.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#295

Post by khazhoux »

yters wrote: post #264
khazhoux wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea has zero basis. It's a mind-brain version of Russell's Teapot: I claim there is a teapot floating between Earth and Mars, and I challenge you to prove otherwise! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

It's what the majority of the world believes, and science has no idea what consciousness is. So, there is zero basis parent is wrong. Plus, there are all kinds of problems and contradictions if the mind reduces to matter.

Matter + electricity.

What problems and contradictions?

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#296

Post by icefox »

hyperpallium wrote: post #241
wl wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be difficult with the current legal system in most of the United States because of the rule against perpetuities[0]. Of course, jurisdiction shopping makes this easier in certain locales. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities

According to Larry Niven ( Rammer ), the courts will find the dead cannot own property. I observe there's a certain prejudice, in that law is written by the living. The other ideas of cryptocurrency/escrow/private keys would escape the law... until you tried to spend it legally. You might as well bury gold in a chest.

So I memorized my private key. Revive me and I will tell you and you will get all my coins.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#297

Post by mirimir »

whack wrote: post #277

Any sufficiently advanced technology that is capable of resurrecting your brain/consciousness, is also capable of subjecting your digital consciousness to eternal torture worse than anything experienced by Man thus far. If you haven't already, check out Black Mirror's last episode: Black Museum. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, even if there's only an infinitesimal chance of it happening. https://en.wikipedia.or…

In Hannu Rajaniemi's "Flower Prince" trilogy, the vast majority of digital consciousnesses become coding slaves.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#300

Post by taneq »

AgentME wrote: post #262
taneq wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The range of different effects that a brain injury can have on your mind is too great, IMO, for this to be true. Consider cases where people forget very specific classes of things, or gain or lose specific faculties, in response to neural trauma. Damage to the brain affects the functionality of the mind itself, not just how clearly the mind can see its inputs and convey its outputs.

Especially when you think about the studies on split-brain patients. That's hard to square away with the idea of our mind being somewhere else transmitting to us ... unless you hypothesize that for every person, there's two minds out there , each transmitting to half of your brain, and then your brain meshes their thoughts together ... but if your brain is capable of integrating the thoughts together, then the argume…

Yeah, for every experiment / example / specimen we know of that changes some function F of the mind, it rules out the possibility of F being performed 'elsewhere' and the results simply being received.

We're at the point now where your 'receiver' is doing basically all the work and, if it's connected to anything else, that thing just supplies formless 'mojo' that has no identifiable effect on the working of the mind.

Post reply on HN