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A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

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Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We constructed a whole reality to steal your keys - the world's most advanced phishing attack.

This is basically the thesis of evangelical Christianity.

That's what "Roko's basilisk" mentioned upthread is. An AI cyberpunk version of evangelical Christianity.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#222
post #199
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I merged the bash logs where I nuked rm -rf / on a given computer into the logs of one where I have not ran that command, the result is not the same. What if you had 2 git repositories, and merged changes from one to another? Or 2 disk images? Why would memories be logs and not contents of the repository in this analogy? And if you care about changes to the brain state that aren't memories - just add these chang…

> Why would existence of a copy change anything? In programming it doesn't, yet you seem to argue it does. It isn't the copy that changes things. It is the potential of a copy that makes it glaringly obvious that the result is not the same instance. If there is some process that makes a second me, I don't have access to the copy of me's thoughts. This proves second me isn't actually me because I'm still here, and we…

> second me isn't actually me

Then who is it?

It remembers being you.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#223

Can we see if they can "wake up" a fly? I'd like some proof-of-concept before investing my brain in this.

You're missing the point. The point is to get money and brains for imaging and drug research, not really to clone people.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#224

We should do everything in our power to eliminate death. There is nothing meaningful about it. It is totally meaningless and tragic, and one day we'll look back on the days when millions died every year the same way we look back on the day when three fourths of children died before the age of five. And this criticism of the rich embracing it first totally misses how technology develops. The rich are always the early…

There's no reason to believe that a human life form is capable of being immortal without going insane.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#226

This is going to sound a bit out there, but what if your brain is simply an antenna for your consciousness to come through from wherever. Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness, and not just a fancy quantum antenna.

The range of different effects that a brain injury can have on your mind is too great, IMO, for this to be true. Consider cases where people forget very specific classes of things, or gain or lose specific faculties, in response to neural trauma. Damage to the brain affects the functionality of the mind itself, not just how clearly the mind can see its inputs and convey its outputs.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#227
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenWorm

I've heard of this and have been eagerly anticipating some results. I'd like to see it trained to do something unique, uploaded, and that some behavior arise in the uploaded version. I'm not totally against consciousness arising from sufficient complexity, but I've yet to see it proven. And then there are the normal people walking around with almost NO brain... http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the-medical-mystery-of-a…

OpenWorm isn't a process for uploading a specific biological worm. It's a connectome for a generic C. elegans worm. Apparently they're all (more or less) the same.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#228
post #141

This is going to sound a bit out there, but what if your brain is simply an antenna for your consciousness to come through from wherever. Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness, and not just a fancy quantum antenna.

> I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness. The concept of "multiple realizability" says that a brain/consciousness/mental state can arise from non-biological matter, like digital computers. Modern proponents of this view do not view the brain as a seat of consciousness. To them, the view of a singular consciousness that houses in the brain like a theatre, is like a…

This was quite hilarious to envision. Thank you.

I myself worry that even if somehow we combine all these domain specific AI's with some approximation of a neo-cortex, and then every AI researcher says "See, there it is! Behold the AGI, told you there was nothing to it!", all we're REALLY going to get is an approximation of the real thing. Then we'll be too busy playing with our new AGI's to realize we missed the mark long ago. The new treasure preservation technology never even arises because victory was declared prematurely. We hit another mark instead of the real thing. Constant refinement of the bizarro superman version of real consciousness.

I hypothesize the REAL mark being that somewhere in the brain, quantum effects, maybe in microtubules, couple with some yet to be conceived discoveries or epithanies, act as a conduit to your real consciousness software existing somewhere "out there" in the simulation ether lets suppose. Extrapolate the AI hype and one day the super intelligent Matrioshka planet size brain emerges (YC backed of course), pours over ancient abandoned research and points out "Hey, you dumb monkeys missed something Yuge here eons ago..."

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#229

This is going to sound a bit out there, but what if your brain is simply an antenna for your consciousness to come through from wherever. Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness, and not just a fancy quantum antenna.

How then do you explain how physical injuries and external stimulation to the brain affect the brain's operation in ways that we increasingly understand? Not saying we're anywhere close to having it all figured out. But this is the sort of question you have to address to accept dualism. I'd certainly like to believe there's something more to my conscious existence than this perishable gray matter. I prefer to believe…

How do you explain being normal and having almost no brain at all:

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the-medical-mystery-of-a-man...

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#230
post #226

This is going to sound a bit out there, but what if your brain is simply an antenna for your consciousness to come through from wherever. Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness, and not just a fancy quantum antenna.

The range of different effects that a brain injury can have on your mind is too great, IMO, for this to be true. Consider cases where people forget very specific classes of things, or gain or lose specific faculties, in response to neural trauma. Damage to the brain affects the functionality of the mind itself, not just how clearly the mind can see its inputs and convey its outputs.

See also: When you are drunk, it is not like you are fully lucid but unable to control your body or your mouth. Your mind/personality itself actually changes.

And of course you cannot will yourself to become drunk.

It is pretty trivial that the matter affects the mind, not vice versa.

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