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A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

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Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#211

Post by tbabb »

noetic_techy wrote: post #107

This is going to sound a bit out there, but what if your brain is simply an antenna for your consciousness to come through from wherever. Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness, and not just a fancy quantum antenna.

We know all the matter that the brain is made out of, and we know what interactions are possible with that matter, because we've done extensive experiments with particle accelerators. If there were something that affected baryonic matter besides the four fundamental forces, we would know about it.

In other words, we know with certainty that there is no physical mechanism by which some "external consciousness" could influence the brain. So the answer to that hypothesis is a definitive "nope, that's not how it works."

CalTech quantum physicist Sean Carrol explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x26a-ztpQs8&t=836

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#212

Post by wl »

bulletsvshumans wrote: post #151

If folks really want to make sure they come back from the dead, they might also think about setting up proper incentives for performing the potentially highly laborious process that resurrection might entail even 100+ years from now. It might be helpful to place a sort of back-to-life bounty on yourself, to be held in escrow, and only to be paid out upon successful resurrection. The bigger the bounty, the higher your…

This would be difficult with the current legal system in most of the United States because of the rule against perpetuities[0]. Of course, jurisdiction shopping makes this easier in certain locales.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_against_perpetuities

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#213

Post by olleromam91 »

cwkoss wrote: post #75
PeanutNore wrote: post #42

“Burdening future generations with our brain banks is just comically arrogant. Aren’t we leaving them with enough problems?” Hendricks told me this week after reviewing Nectome’s website. “I hope future people are appalled that in the 21st century, the richest and most comfortable people in history spent their money and resources trying to live forever on the backs of their descendants. I mean, it’s a joke, right? Th…

Anyone who is cryopreserved, but is viewed as a villian in the zeitgeist of the future, could end up being booted up into a personal hell for the amusement/vindictiveness of future people. If a 'Hitler' VM was publicly available online, how many people would torture it? What are the ethics around torturing virtual consciousnesses of evil people?

Altered Carbon explores virtual torture pretty extensively in its first season. Acting is sub-par, but concepts are intriguing as all hell.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#214

Post by noetic_techy »

cgio wrote: post #185
noetic_techy wrote: post #107

This is going to sound a bit out there, but what if your brain is simply an antenna for your consciousness to come through from wherever. Has anyone actually tried to boot up an artificial brain derived from a real organism? I'd like to see a proof of concept that your brain IS indeed the seat of your consciousness, and not just a fancy quantum antenna.

Even assuming that it is an antenna, then if your antenna is the only one receiving your consciousness then it is the seat of your consciousness or equivalent, i.e. its reasonable to assume that if you restore the antenna you will restore the consciousness in place (I am leveraging the fact that you called it a seat). On the other side of the coin, with embodied consciousness you could raise other potential issues wi…

I completely agree that leaving out the gut-brain connection may be a huge error in our quest for General AI simulation. I'm not sure that I agree that simulating neurons in silicon form is equivalent to restoring the antenna though. There may be a quantum link that only neurons have functionally.

They are already finding quantum effects in plants:

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/vibrating-molecules-help...

And that our brain contains micro-tubules that exhibit quantum effects:

https://phys.org/news/2014-01-discovery-quantum-vibrations-m...

Maybe they ARE the antenna.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#215

Post by omegaworks »

vtange wrote: post #81
omegaworks wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>their one dollar notes that are worth $1,000 in 2018 dollars. The fed would never allow this to happen. That would be deflation. What we should pray for is $0.25 loaves of bread, $10 rent, and a $1000 minimum wage. We want a future where human time is valued and basic resources are plentiful enough to be cheap for everyone.

That is still deflation. Deflation is any decrease in the general price level of goods and services. It does not matter if it is due to increased production by advanced AI robots, etc. After all, if you knew you can get something cheaper tomorrow, why spend at all? Like you said, the Fed will run against this.

I wasn't trying to be pedantic, but if you want to go there, feel free to consult the chart[1]. There's plenty that's become more expensive in real dollars, and there exists a strange cohort of people that believe real wage gains are a form of inflation. My worry is that these same people frequently sit at the helm of our monetary system.

My point remains:

> We want a future where human time is valued and basic resources are plentiful enough to be cheap for everyone.

1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-chart-shows-the-moder...

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#216

Post by SherlockeHolmes »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #177
matte_black wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever suffered from Depersonalization/Derealization disorder, it will become very clear that your mind and your consciousness are not the same thing at all . DP/DR is quite possibly the worst mental disorder you can ever fall into. It is the feeling where you are convinced everything around you is not real, you see people you know, you know they are significant, but they just feel like actors in a show and y…

Eh, easily attributed to brain chemistry and not necessarily anything woo.

please oblige and expand on this “easy attribution”. To be clear, it bothers me when we wave away the really hard problems - while we become too enchanted with solutions that barely build on current technology. This company injects chemicals near your brain stem and lets your heart pump it into all minuscule parts of your brain. The apparent allure comes from the potential development of a technology some time in the future that will allow a reanimation of the person seated in that saved brain.

the money they’ve raised so far is due to the possible improvements this proposed technology will bring to neuro research.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#217

Post by notahacker »

ajuc wrote: post #55
sarabande wrote: post #6

In the case when you die, but your brain still exists, and it starts processing it again in a new host (computer or organic), isn't that not you anymore? Why would my former self want that? Is this a solved philosophical problem for which literature exists?

Is it still you when you wake up every day? What about after general anesthesia? You only know you are you because of your memories. The future brain will have the memories, so it will think it's you, just like you think today that you are the same you that were awake 3 days ago and 10 years ago. Are you afraid of nonexistence when you fall asleep, and envy the tommorow's you that he will live in your body and get to…

Brain activity continues during sleep and general anaesthesia (even in the absence of sufficient electrical energy to show up on an EEG scan, chemical reactions are taking place). I see no reason whatsoever to believe that this continued brain activity bears no relation to our perception of continuity in consciousness.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#218

Post by DoreenMichele »

SherlockeHolmes wrote: post #216
DoreenMichele wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, easily attributed to brain chemistry and not necessarily anything woo.

please oblige and expand on this “easy attribution”. To be clear, it bothers me when we wave away the really hard problems - while we become too enchanted with solutions that barely build on current technology. This company injects chemicals near your brain stem and lets your heart pump it into all minuscule parts of your brain. The apparent allure comes from the potential development of a technology some time in the…

I already did:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16580722

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#219

Post by prepend »

tlb wrote: post #56
prepend wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming there is a cost, the trade off is reduced money to your heirs or charity. So while it is non-zero, that doesn’t mean it’s worth the cost. That’s why I brought up backups. Remember Zip drives for backup? Imagine if there was no reader at time of launch. And how likely it was to build the reader without any changes to spec that the existing Zip disk could be used to restore without any problems. Even with read…

Would you pay 5% of your net worth for a 10% chance of recovery?

Certainly. But I wouldn’t pay 5% of my net worth for a 0.0000000001% chance of recovery. As it is now, the chance of recovery is approaching 1 ininfinity.

You’re just as likely to be “recovered” from a photograph. Or from your Facebook profile. Or by tracing neutrinos that passed through you during your lifetime. Or a rock with your name written on it with a sharpie.

All of these things have the same evidenced probability of assisting with your recovery.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#220

Post by SherlockeHolmes »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #187
matte_black wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no known cause. Or cure for that matter.

That's not really a rebuttal of my point. I have a serious medical condition. I frequently suffer somatopsychic side effects. It's incredible what chemistry can make you feel. I happen to also believe in a lot of woo stuff. But the reality is that no known cause is not proof that there is a spiritual explanation or cause.

this isn’t an explanation. this is a very poor woman’s hypothesis. If you were to provide verifiable relationships between chemical imbalances and whatever relevant physical abnormalities in a brain and a person’s mental state, you’d be up for a nobel prize.

to achieve this relationship, you’d first need to develop a quantifiable way to represent a person’s mental state. for which, you’d be up for another nobel prize.

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