The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation • Hacker News Board

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#121

Post by b0rsuk » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #61

For me, the big shock has always been the extent to which sleep can kill a fantastic streak of productivity. I sometimes have weeks of incredible energy, where I work 12 or even 14 hours every day, and I do my best work, and I have deep insights, and invent new products and new kinds of software. And generally, over the course of a week or two, I become more productive each day. And finally I have a day when I am on…

You can't cheat your body. Your body will take the sleep if it feels it needs it. Also, sleep deprivation stacks, so if you miss 1 hour each day you'll eventually fall asleep all of sudden.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#122

Post by vanderZwan » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

uhhyeahdude wrote: post #17

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

> The downside: I am totally sober, but I know my executive function is not working very well, and I may very well regret commenting.

As someone who is chronically sleep deprived this hits me hard. I had a few days of "full wakefulness" last year, where I had a good nights sleep for a few days in a row and my head was just clear. It felt so amazing to be "all here" and notice that your brain is firing all cylinders when thinking about problems.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#123

Post by dorfsmay » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 10:42 PM UTC

rjdlee wrote: post #88

dorfsmay wrote: post #51

I've successfully managed allergies with sleep deprivation. The issue is that it is obviously not sustainable.

Care to explain how?

How: By keeping myself busy and not sleeping!

But I suspect that's not the question you were asking.

Does it really work: It works for me, yes. But we are all different and I suspect it'd have different effect on different people.

Why does it work (for me)?

I don't know for sure, it could be placebo effect or... I have read that lack of sleep affect the production of cortisol and histamine, interestingly enough some studies say increase, some say decrease (could it be a different effect based on individual?). The fact is, both histamine and cortisol affect the immune response, and allergies are basically your immune system reacting too much or reacting to the wrong thing.

Definitely not sustainable for more than 2 or 3 days, but it's a nice way to take a break from drugs.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#124

Post by EGreg » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 11:33 PM UTC

brazzledazzle wrote: post #63

uhhyeahdude wrote: post #17

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

I really enjoy that surreal aspect of sleep deprivation. Everything seems to be a bit different through that lens–almost, but not quite like a fresh perspective. Not quite because it feels like you had it all along. Maybe it’s just elucidation but that doesn’t feel apt either. I don’t know your writing style generally speaking but this comment feels slightly tinged with that surreal feeling (in a positive way). Of co…

I get more irritable when sleep deprived. Anyone else have the same thing?

I don't think purposely incurring sleep debt is for me. Maybe others handle it better.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#125

Post by jimnotgym » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 11:38 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #115

jimnotgym wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this got the better of me, there is now a list on Github https://github.com/Jimnotgym/Hacking_Depression Please PR if you want to comment. I'll do a ShowHN once there is more on it

This is a great initiative! Some quick ideas. Perhaps you can mention what should determine the order in the list. For example, every experiment has: - A success rate. - An average time to noticeable improvement - An average time to recovery. - Risk and severity of side effects. - Cost. - Difficulty. - More? So for example, checking for nutritional deficiencies (very important) or other tests can be near the top of t…

If we can get a consensus about what people are doing, rather than just what is getting posted on HN I am happy to write a quick app that applies your very sensible success criteria. Comments Issues and PR are most welcome

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#126

Post by cl0ne » Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 12:34 AM UTC

Interesting, this has worked for me on occasion during times of suffering from depression and anxiety and I was wondering about it recently. Sometimes I have trouble sleeping and have noticed positive effects in my mood and energy level the next day after staying up all night.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#127

Post by obmelvin » Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 12:37 AM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #109

geoka9 wrote: post #96

Haven't read the article yet, but it sounds grim, I don't think it can be good for me. Instead of forced sleep deprivation, try this for a week: intermittent fasting and calorie restriction, good nutrition (veggies, nuts, olive oil, eggs, etc.), no drinking (at all), going to bed early (like 10 pm), waking up early (at dawn in the summer at 4 am would be perfect), but naturally, without an alarm clock. Doing this, yo…

> good nutrition (veggies, nuts, olive oil, eggs, etc.) I'd highly recommend reducing carb intake; cut out your bread, sugar, starch, pasta and try to stick with meat and greens. Low carb diets (Keto, Adkins, etc.) made a huge difference for me health wise.

Ugh. Carbs are fuel. Cutting out the specifics you mentioned are good, but generally cutting out carbs is not good for most people.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#128

Post by entwife » Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 12:47 AM UTC

caseymarquis wrote: post #67

This article confuses depression and bipolar disorder quite a bit. They're inducing mania through sleep deprivation in patients with bipolar disorder going through a period of depression. This is somewhat dangerous, as mania can have severe consequences. The article even states that there's a 95% relapse into depression for those not taking lithium. Only people with BPD take lithium. It's not about the lithium, it's…

What Shikadi said. Also, if you tend toward bipolar (manic/depressive episodes), maintaining a constant sleep schedule can keep you out of the extreme highs and lows.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#129

Post by kortex » Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 12:51 AM UTC

mjfl wrote: post #8

So the cure for depression is to take hallucinogens like ketamine or deliberately deprive yourself of sleep? It's like making yourself happier by making yourself less sharp. Perhaps, then, one is depressed because one is rational - because there are real, serious problems with life that need to be dealt with, not escaped. The recent "cures" sound almost Huxley-an.

Depression and anxiety do horrendous damage to cognition, scramble health, cost wages over time, and increase all-cause mortality. And a lot is driven by irrational thoughts.

That being said, imho there is absolute something there to the "too rational" bit. One gets really good at coming up with reasons something will not work. Negativity bias becomes overwhelming, and hope and optimism get swamped by a unproductive abundance of cynicism.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#130

Post by sutterbomb » Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #107

gingerlime wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once a week is the maximum I’ve understood would be healthy for typical first world lifestyles. As far as I understand, the 16-hour fasting (skipping breakfast) is something you keep doing rather than once a week. Unlike a 24/48+ hour fasting some people do once in a while... Maybe I missed some crucial piece of information?

Yes, that calorie reduction to that degree increases the chance (body type-dependant) that your’ll induce starvation prevention reactions in your body. An at rest adult human typically requires 2000 calorie sharing a day to maintain weight. That’s if you never left your bed. Regularly reducing that further will cause your body to store more energy which results in fat gain. And not always the good kind. The simple wa…

The IF literature I’ve read indicates that calorie reduction isn’t really a goal, though it often happens to some degree. But I’m generally not taking in 2/3rd of prior calories just because I’m eating 2/3rd of the meals - more like 3/4 or 4/5.

This is all new to me so curious where you’re getting this info from so I can read up.