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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#171

Post by JustAnotherPat »

mino wrote: post #52
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

That was a wrong decision: rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether. Italy is doing so since 2011, and it seems to be working just fine.

Last time i was in Italy, I got charged for a bag, so they're still also doing that it seems.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#172

Post by sdfasdasfsf »

paulintrognon wrote: post #151
coldtea wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. Still totally insignificant. A small plastic product packaging, of the kind everything comes in, has more plastic than 200 bags. https://goo.gl/images/cBp3zn Like TSA "security theater", this is "environmental theater".

But those can be recycled, can't they?

In theory, maybe. But it's super complicated

- Plastics really don't mix well. Even trace amount of a different polymer (those numbers in the bottom) will destroy the strength of a batch of plastic (there is research in this though) - Recycling is expensive and in an economic battle against new stock (carbon tax?).

Cleaving the bonds to make diesel or feedstock is another option to "recycle" polymers (I dunno why it's not done. energy intensive wrt to oil? Dirty?)

Plastics are amazing... but we really should stop using them altogether except for fringe no alternative cases.

P.S. turns out plastics are bio-degradable by some tough organisms. So there's hope.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#173

Post by lev99 »

antognini wrote: post #129
makecheck wrote: post #115

Drinks taste better without straws anyway, and you can be satisfied with a lot less by sipping directly. I was amazed how easily I could gulp down some 32 oz. drink with a straw but when opening the lid and sipping I could be perfectly happy with a tiny coffee-cup size.

I don't like straws myself, but they are better for your teeth since most beverages are acidic and the straw allows the liquid to bypass your teeth.

I suspect we'll see the market for reusable straws increase in Taiwan.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#174

Post by sdfasdasfsf »

ekianjo wrote: post #155
autokad wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you ever had your milk go splat on the pavement after it went right through your plastic bag, then yeah, its not enough.

Why not bring your own (non-plastic) bag though?

... we forget.

Glad to know you're helping bring down the average though

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#175

Post by yawz »

dalbasal wrote: post #142

You got to be at least a little cynical about 2030 date for something like this. Why not 2020. This isn't electric cars. We don't need to think about cost curves or 10 year product cycles.

My first reaction too. I didn't think 2030 was particularly ambitious.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#176

Post by sdfasdasfsf »

PakG1 wrote: post #66
ChrisRR wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesco used biodegradable bags but they weren't lasting long compared to the original bags. They couldn't be used for much because they started falling apart within weeks.

At least they're biodegradable though? Plastic isn't really.

What is plastic? PE, PTFE,

There are microorganisms that eat certain polymers (PE), but I don't think anything will ever eat PTFE (teflon)

I'd bet that switching away from teflon frying pans you'll help the environment more than getting rid of a life time of PE bags. F chemistry is super nasty

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#177

Post by jwilk »

wnissen wrote: post #137
autokad wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you ever had your milk go splat on the pavement after it went right through your plastic bag, then yeah, its not enough.

Plastic bags hold about 20-30 pounds, how much milk are we talking?

For metrics units users, that's 9-14 kg.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#178

Post by JumpCrisscross »

londons_explore wrote: post #165
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether Fines allow businesses to judge the merits (and timeline) of shifting according to their needs. Bans force everyone to shift simultaneously. Ceteris paribus , bans promote incumbents while taxes facilitate new entrants. (TL; DR Britain versus Italy's economy.)

A ban is effectively an infinite fee. A small fee seems like a good halfway point between having no fee and an infinite fee.

> A ban is effectively an infinite fee

It’s the probability of getting caught times the cost of the punishment. That’s the other problem with a ban. “Probability of getting caught” being a cost center, authorities prefer giant fines with low enforcement costs; this results in a system favouring the politically connected.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#179

Post by hnrodey »

dalbasal wrote: post #142

You got to be at least a little cynical about 2030 date for something like this. Why not 2020. This isn't electric cars. We don't need to think about cost curves or 10 year product cycles.

There is a business and people impact to these types of decisions. Reducing usage of anything means one or more businesses will cease to operate and people will lose income. The government needs to afford these industries an opportunity to adjust to the new regulations.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#180

Post by jeffffff »

technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

the non-reusable plastic bag ban in austin, tx was a pretty big failure. the problem is that a lot of the big stores (heb in particular) sell heavier "reusable" bags for 25 cents that no one actually reuses. these bags have a significantly larger environmental impact than the disposable bags if they are not actually reused as intended.

http://kxan.com/2015/06/10/report-austin-bag-ban-had-uninten...

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