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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#141

Post by briandear »

skrause wrote: post #121
emiliobumachar wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very informative piece. Key excerpts: "Homeless people learned long ago that pooping in plastic-bag-lined containers meant you could wrap the session up and dispose of all the stuff without touching it, he said in a long email. So when it got harder to get the bags after the ban went into effect late last year, it became harder to find the bags and people who were able to keep things clean had to work a lot harder."…

Well, other developed countries don't have so many homeless people, so that should be less of a problem there.

> other developed countries don't have so many homeless people

Not true.

Here are per-night homeless statistics from UN:

China has 2.6 million Russia has 5 million Ukraine 1 million Germany 860,000 US has 554,000 ...

But more profoundely, by homeless ratio, the US is not even close.

Germany, New Zealand, Czech Republic, Canada, the UK, Australia, Sweden, Luxembourg, Croatia, Bosnia, Russia, Peru France, Austria, the Netherlands, China and Greece -- ALL have higher homeless ratios than the United States. The US is in 33rd place for overall worldwide homelessness as a percentage of the population.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#143

Post by tclancy »

jamesrcole wrote: post #124
picodguyo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastics are polluting and poisoning the oceans: https://www.ft.com/content/30b30b1e-004a-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c...

I can't read that article (says a subscription is required). Plastics may be polluting and poisoning the oceans, but - what exactly is the source of those plastics? I saw someone else in this thread claim that it was from countries with poor waste management. So is banning use of those plastics in certain countries actually going to help? Is better waste management a better solution? - evaluating any proposal means d…

You're asking strangers on the Internet to do your research for you, trusting the data without research and then lecturing us on doing deeper research?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#144

Post by wnissen »

craftyguy wrote: post #101
fvdessen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plastic that ends up in the ocean comes from places & countries that have no waste management at all besides dumping garbage directly in rivers and the ocean. I doubt that's the case for Taiwan.

I was in Taiwan a couple years ago doing a beach cleanup, plastics (bags, etc) most definitely make it into the water there.

Right, but most of them are getting landfilled at the worst, right? As I understand it, the majority of the garbage is coming from countries that have no commercial-scale waste disposal except ocean dumping.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#145

Post by coldtea »

technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

>The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge.

Still totally insignificant. A small plastic product packaging, of the kind everything comes in, has more plastic than 200 bags.

https://goo.gl/images/cBp3zn

Like TSA "security theater", this is "environmental theater".

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#146

Post by briandear »

maym86 wrote: post #127
joelrunyon wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have that. They choose the plastic bags because the toilets are in disarray.

Or just access to well maintained public toilets.

Perhaps the homeless could be given jobs cleaning the toilets?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#147

Post by coldtea »

wnissen wrote: post #137
autokad wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you ever had your milk go splat on the pavement after it went right through your plastic bag, then yeah, its not enough.

Plastic bags hold about 20-30 pounds, how much milk are we talking?

Plastic bags can easily tear with just a small box being sideways and its corners cutting into the bag...

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#148

Post by jamesrcole »

tclancy wrote: post #143
jamesrcole wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't read that article (says a subscription is required). Plastics may be polluting and poisoning the oceans, but - what exactly is the source of those plastics? I saw someone else in this thread claim that it was from countries with poor waste management. So is banning use of those plastics in certain countries actually going to help? Is better waste management a better solution? - evaluating any proposal means d…

You're asking strangers on the Internet to do your research for you, trusting the data without research and then lecturing us on doing deeper research?

You assume I haven't done any research myself. I've spent some time looking into this and haven't seen anything that I thought really tried to analyse the issue. And I was wondering if anyone else knew of any good sources.

What is wrong with asking if others know of any good sources? Isn't sharing knowledge one of the points of sites like this?

> trusting the data without research

what are you referring to with this?

> then lecturing us on doing deeper research?

I never said anybody had to do any deeper research. I explained why "plastics are polluting and poisoning the ocean" is not, itself, a deep argument for wanting to ban them. What is wrong with doing that? And do you disagree with any of the reasons I gave?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#149

Post by neilni »

Seeing some of comments about price.. just thought I can put more info here since that's where I'm from and some points are not mentioned, especially the previous plastic reduction effort by Taiwan started in 2002.

In 2002, the restriction on plastic bags that are thinner than 0.06mm was imposed to all stores, but it was not a complete ban. Stores that offer plastic bags thicker than 0.06mm need to charge customers. The idea behind thicker bag is reusability. Two types of responses from stores: Stores started providing thinner bag as long as they are bio-degradable (Link 1), or they provide thicker bag as long as customers are charged. Customer's response: Since 2002, 71.7 reduction in plastic bag use in supermarkets, and 43.4 reduction in plastic bag use in stores. (Link 2, Link 3)

And just a side note, Taipei started being more aggressive since 2000 by charging garbage bags. You have to purchase government issued garbage bags if you want to throw your garbage out of your house. (Mentioned in link 4)

Some links are in Chinese

Link 1: http://e-info.org.tw/node/202363

Link 2: http://www.epochtimes.com.tw/n176732/%E6%93%B4%E5%A4%A7%E9%9...

Link 3: Similar to link 2 with different stats https://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0615/p07s02-woap.html

Link 4: https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3134910

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#150

Post by wastedhours »

technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

Anecdata, but since it was introduced, I've gone from getting a new bag every day (lunch/fresh groceries), to using the same one for pretty much the last 6 months.

It was a very noticeable shift to making me think about their use.

Buying one because I've forgotten is a rare, and slight annoyance (the price doesn't put me off, it just changes the mental model).

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