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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#51

Post by bluGill »

mbid wrote: post #31
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

Honest question: How many plastic straws do you have to save to offset the CO2 cost of building a steel straw? Also, are paper straws really better, CO2-wise?

Don't forget the cost of all the carbon burned to heat the water each time you wash the reusable straw.

As the other poster said, this is very hard to calculate.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#52

Post by mino »

technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

That was a wrong decision: rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether.

Italy is doing so since 2011, and it seems to be working just fine.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#53

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #27
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#54

Post by jimmaswell »

technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

I don't like that this is a regressive tax - pay a premium for the good bags, settle for paper, or pay for reusable bags. If anything, maybe just give a tax credit for not using plastic, which is printed on the receipt.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#55

Post by mattmanser »

oldcynic wrote: post #37
Fifer82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have about 20 pound worth of bags in the cupboard gathering dust, 5p doesn't make a difference. They should make it £1 in the UK from now and £5 from 2020. That will make a dent. 2030 is the same as saying "Lets kick the can down the road".

That's broadly where I'd go with plastic bottles - £1 deposit, rising to £5 and compel supermarkets and manufacturers to take the returns. I'm old enough to remember the 20p(?) deposit on glass bottles of fizzy pop. Also when supermarkets were selling milk in glass bottles - and provided crates in the same section for customers to return the empties. This used to be a solved problem.

Surprise, surprise, corporate greed and lobbying are the cause that it's no longer a solved problem:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/02/plasti...

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#56

Post by ChrisRR »

mino wrote: post #52
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

That was a wrong decision: rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether. Italy is doing so since 2011, and it seems to be working just fine.

Tesco used biodegradable bags but they weren't lasting long compared to the original bags. They couldn't be used for much because they started falling apart within weeks.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#57

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mino wrote: post #52
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

That was a wrong decision: rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether. Italy is doing so since 2011, and it seems to be working just fine.

> rather than imposing a small fee, they should have banned the sale of non-biodegradable bags altogether

Fines allow businesses to judge the merits (and timeline) of shifting according to their needs. Bans force everyone to shift simultaneously. Ceteris paribus, bans promote incumbents while taxes facilitate new entrants. (TL; DR Britain versus Italy's economy.)

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#58

Post by ceejayoz »

randomerr wrote: post #8

The Law of Unintended Consequences will: * Put companies out of business that produce or import said goods * Reducing availability and increasing cost of medical goods that use plastic because the aforementioned companies no longer exist or are importing products * Put pressure on manufactures to use alternate materials (bamboo and glass most likely) causing shortages and rising cost This in the long run is going to…

> Soda Tax in New York that made people go to New Jersey:

Hang on, you're telling us you think people in New York City hopped on a ferry, train, or taxi to New Jersey to buy a cup with few more ounces of soda? Instead of just buying a second soda?

Such a claim makes it pretty hard to give any credit to your other assertions.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#59

Post by goda90 »

mbid wrote: post #31
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

Honest question: How many plastic straws do you have to save to offset the CO2 cost of building a steel straw? Also, are paper straws really better, CO2-wise?

I think the meme of carbon footprint has gotten too deep. We need to address carbon at the power generation, deforestation, and transportation levels. At lower levels or carbon footprint, it's better to worry more about how waste is handled. If we're not reducing, reusing, and recycling, then we're probably adding more junk to the environment that still damages ecosystems.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#60

Post by Fifer82 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #33
Fifer82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have about 20 pound worth of bags in the cupboard gathering dust, 5p doesn't make a difference. They should make it £1 in the UK from now and £5 from 2020. That will make a dent. 2030 is the same as saying "Lets kick the can down the road".

Well apparently a 5p charge resulted in a 14x decrease in usage of plastic bags, so despite your anecdote, it does make a difference.

Fair enough but I wonder how much of that has to do with simply being asked? Being given a bag was standard, as normal as expecting the store to be heated. An invisible service.

Now, you don't get given a bag for your Sandwich & Water at lunch, and you don't get a free bag with your McDonalds meal to name just a couple of services.

1p or 5p wouldn't make much of a difference? A Family paying 100 pound a week on shopping at a super market, can easily just spend 100.35 on 7 bags and won't bat an eye lid.

If that was 107.00 that would make a real difference and I bet the decrease would be much greater.

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