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America's misguided culture of overwork

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Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#151

Post by yummyfajitas »

nanairo wrote: post #135
rick888 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Excuse me but where did that "ignorance is bliss" come from?" People that don't have freedom and are stuck in one system don't know what they are missing. "But the number of people that can afford those in the USA is so small that when you look at the average, most are worse off." The majority of people (last I heard it was > 70%) have some form of health care in the US. Our health care system does need to be reform…

What makes you think that I don't have freedom? Or that I am stuck in my current system? In how many countries have you lived in? Having some form of health care is not the same as having good health care, and most definitely not the same as having the best health care that the USA provides.In fact, I am puzzled how you can quote a statistics like that with a straight face: you are saying that less than 30% of the po…

If you look in more detail, it's not as big a problem as it appears.

14 million are de-facto insured - they are eligible for medicaid but have not bothered to sign up. If they ever require insurance, they can sign up and medicaid will pay for their treatment (medicaid doesn't care about preexisting conditions). Another 23 million are uninsured for 4 months or less, presumably because they declined COBRA.

Fun fact, from the wikipedia page: the states with the biggest percentage of uninsured people border Mexico. I wonder how much of the problem could be solved by enforcing immigration law.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/25/who-are-the-...

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#152

Post by temphn »

Maybe the US is the most powerful country in the world _because_ its people work hard in a high productivity system.

America is an exception. But perhaps it is "out of sync" with the world in the same way Google is out of sync with your average software corp.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#153

Post by mattm »

patrickgzill wrote: post #69

My personal experience with Germans is that they are hard workers for several hours, then they take off and play. During the time they are working they are focused on getting work done. Americans will put in long hours, but then during the course of the day will play in the form of checking personal email, talking around the water cooler, etc. You can cross ref. this with NASA's finding that programmers who were only…

My experience echoes this. I really believe there is a fixed limit to the amount of work one can do and once you cross that line, you just end up goofing off or procrastinating. And it's nowhere near 40 hours per week. I would say it's more like 20-30.

The 40 hour work week is standard because Henry Ford's productivity studies found that for repetitive, manual labour, that was the maximum amount of hours one could work before a drastic reduction in productivity. That bar was set nearly 100 years ago and yet we still follow it even though work has drastically changed.

I never understand people who work insane hours. They may be at work for X hours per day but I really doubt they are working all that time.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#154

Post by rick888 »

leot wrote: post #140
rick888 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And what makes people eat crappy food in the US? Could it be that crappy food is sold starting from the school's cafeteria? Could it be that people don't have enough time to cook or eat at better restaurants?" Crappy school food does need to be changed. If people "don't have enough time" to cook or eat better, it's because they are lazy. You need to make time for these things. "It could also mean any number of thing…

... are you suggesting that Americans are inherently more stupid than Europeans?

".. are you suggesting that Americans are inherently more stupid than Europeans?"

No. I'm suggesting that there will always be stupid and lazy people wherever you go. Many countries in Europe attempt to legislate it away by taking away by making choices for you (More social programs and restrictions on private alternatives). For some, this is fine, because they will be better off. For others, it just means less freedom and less choices.

In the US, we are free to make our own choices (and for some people, this means failing).

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#155

Post by Confusion »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #48
microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Dutch, French, Scandinavian, and others aren't, and the those systems is very comparable to that of Germany. Many of the ideas originate from far before WWII, and had a strong presence (and development) in Europe since events such as the French revolution. It's America-centrism to think that all welfare and modernism is brought to the world by the USA. One typical anecdote a former exchange student told me, t…

Go educate yourself, the average Western-European citizen has more luxury, more free time, and better health-care than the average citizen of the United States (I know, I have visited the US often). Help me educate myself. Provide some evidence.

Somewhat of the inverse of more luxury: there is approximately 50% more poverty in the US than in Western European countries: http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/rwss/docs/2010/fullreport.pdf (page 38).

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#156

Post by bitwize »

Destruct1 wrote: post #109

Whenever a recession hits a country everbody doubts their system. They look for other countries which are growing at the moment and try to emulate their success. I still remember the time when the japanese were strong and everybody (europeans and americans) tried to become japanese, use their culture and work ethic. In a decade or two, the american will forget the recession and wonder about wierd articles like this o…

Nice job putting that song in my head, hero.

"...turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so..."

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#157

Post by DrPhish »

patrickgzill wrote: post #69

My personal experience with Germans is that they are hard workers for several hours, then they take off and play. During the time they are working they are focused on getting work done. Americans will put in long hours, but then during the course of the day will play in the form of checking personal email, talking around the water cooler, etc. You can cross ref. this with NASA's finding that programmers who were only…

I found the American model of screwing around all day in order to have something to do during your (essentially mandatory) overtime to be present in Japan as well. It's taken to an extreme in both cultures, and the drop in productivity is obvious to the outside observer. The funny thing is that, at least in Japan, pretty well everyone recognizes it as a problem, but no one is willing to make any progress towards fixing it. They are completely resigned to it's "necessity".

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#159

Post by macco »

Nitramp wrote: post #93
tezza wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a London based person, the 'suddeness' of the interest in Deutsche strategy is palpable. Last years 'sick man' is now the healthiest man on the block:: IF the Keynsian stimulation favoured by America does not work. Further, there are mounting concerns (valid or not) that China may not be the saviour some hoped. If that transpires, the situation will be bleak indeed for the indebted US and good for the 'austere' Ge…

These press articles (and maybe even the underlying Economic studies) are just nonsense. E.g., Ireland used to be the magic model for all of Europe with huge GDP growth, now they are completely broke. Same for the Baltic states to a lesser degree. One year, it's all fairy dust and unicorns, the next year doom and gloom. Seen from some distance, this sounds a lot like people who have no clue at all making long term pr…

No real scientiest talk like these press articles. Economic models can only simulate a few variables. Unfortunately economic development depends on almost infinate number of variables.

I know: I know nothing :)

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#160

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

leot wrote: post #141
gyardley wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always operated under the assumption that equal wealth distribution ('fair' is a loaded word) has an economic cost, since inequalities in wealth (+ economic freedom) encourage economy-expanding activities like entrepreneurship. Therefore I've assumed that relatively equal wealth distribution is only sustainable when there's a whole lot of wealth to go around. I could be wrong, though. Can anyone come up with an…

My version: I've always operated under the assumption that unequal wealth distribution ('fair' is a loaded word) has an economic cost, since equalities in wealth (+ economic freedom) encourage economy-expanding activities like entrepreneurship. [removed the last point as it is fair one on its own, but is not entailed from the previous statements.] I could be wrong, though. Can anyone come up with an example of volunt…

Imagine, then, what might happen if we doubled the size the base of people that could start/support an Apple or a Google

On the face of it: yes, it would lead to higher GDP. BUT you have to consider where that wealth to spread around came from in the first place. If I know that by becoming very wealthy I'm going to be taxed to kingdom come so my wealth can be "fairly distributed" then I don't have much of an incentive to become wealthy. Why would I, when I'd just end up back where I started?

Allow me the opportunity to become wealthy and let me retain control of my wealth and then I'm just limited by personal circumstance and ambition.

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