Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

laphamsquarterly.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 115 posts

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#91

Post by anvandare »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #41
beefinethan wrote: post #25

I've been an avid reader of Stoicism, and was introduced to it by, you guessed it, Tim Ferriss. I have been conciously trying to adopt the philosophies and mantras into my day to day life. Have compiled the following tangible techniques/approaches to thought feel free to add your own: * Premeditatio Malorum (premeditation of evils or Negative Visualization) * Stoic Fork - Make the best use of things in your control a…

I'm genuinely curious - what is this mindset supposed to accomplish?

All life is suffering, but mercifully it ends with death.

However, we don't want to die (because we are so attached to life, it's hard to overrule billions of years of evolution).

So we have to endure the suffering until we die on our own, or until the suffering becomes great enough to overcome the mental barrier of suicide.

Just as we can train our bodies through exercise to deal with exertion, so too can we train our minds through philosophy to deal with suffering. It makes life easier to live.

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#92

Post by gaius »

Lynolix wrote: post #80
AlexB138 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not, thought I'm somewhat familiar with Massimo through his other work. Would you recommend it?

No I haven't nor is it high on my priority list; for that matter, I know little of Stoicism itself aside from a few aphorisms and axioms -- the di/tri-chotomy of control, the Four Virtues, etc. As for why, I have the unfounded belief that Stoicism alone is too pacifistic thus is ill-equipped to handle malevolence at an interpersonal and societal level. I would need to read and research to get some answers though.

have the unfounded belief that Stoicism alone is too pacifistic thus is ill-equipped to handle malevolenc

Stoicism is formally taught in the classroom to aspiring Navy SEALs; it’s probably capable of handling (necessary) violence

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#93

Post by moat »

seneca wrote: post #61

I wrote this in response to someone asking about other Stoic writings who, in the interim, deleted their response, so I'll post it as a stand-alone response: I'm an avid reader of Stoic philosophy, to the point I would say it's a central pillar of my life. I would strongly advocate anyone interested in Stoicism not read these recent texts first, or, if I'm honest, really at all. I get that they're trying to making it…

I personally always recommend Seneca as the perfect starting point, but I did receive immense value from the modern book “A Guide To The Good Life”.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0040JHNQG (I prefer the Audible version though)

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#94

Post by cheschire »

gaius wrote: post #92
Lynolix wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I haven't nor is it high on my priority list; for that matter, I know little of Stoicism itself aside from a few aphorisms and axioms -- the di/tri-chotomy of control, the Four Virtues, etc. As for why, I have the unfounded belief that Stoicism alone is too pacifistic thus is ill-equipped to handle malevolence at an interpersonal and societal level. I would need to read and research to get some answers though.

have the unfounded belief that Stoicism alone is too pacifistic thus is ill-equipped to handle malevolenc Stoicism is formally taught in the classroom to aspiring Navy SEALs; it’s probably capable of handling (necessary) violence

In the case of training a fighting force, doctrine of the enemy is often as beneficial to study. That does not mean stoicism is being promoted as the doctrine of either side, however.

Obviously stoicism makes a useful tool for someone who must endure the incredible hardship of soul that special operations must endure, however it's important to note that it is equally useful for the enemy to be just as resilient.

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#95

Post by gaius »

cheschire wrote: post #94
gaius wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have the unfounded belief that Stoicism alone is too pacifistic thus is ill-equipped to handle malevolenc Stoicism is formally taught in the classroom to aspiring Navy SEALs; it’s probably capable of handling (necessary) violence

In the case of training a fighting force, doctrine of the enemy is often as beneficial to study. That does not mean stoicism is being promoted as the doctrine of either side, however. Obviously stoicism makes a useful tool for someone who must endure the incredible hardship of soul that special operations must endure, however it's important to note that it is equally useful for the enemy to be just as resilient.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Spetsnaz also studied it, it would if ISIS did

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#96

Post by tasuki »

pagade wrote: post #77
seneca wrote: post #61

I wrote this in response to someone asking about other Stoic writings who, in the interim, deleted their response, so I'll post it as a stand-alone response: I'm an avid reader of Stoic philosophy, to the point I would say it's a central pillar of my life. I would strongly advocate anyone interested in Stoicism not read these recent texts first, or, if I'm honest, really at all. I get that they're trying to making it…

https://enchiridion.tasuki.org Which translation would you recommend?

Hey I made that! Never would've thought it'd be shared here. Makes me very happy :)

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#97

Post by coldtea »

alexashka wrote: post #63
coldtea wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was wrong. When you are alive you have not just "the present moment but also all your future moments to look forward to -- and you have thoughts about what to do in those moments. It's only for the last 'present moment' that what he said holds.

You look to future moments, in the present moment. There is only the present moment. This isn't a philosophical stance - it's actually a subtle point that isn't obvious until pointed out, everything you experience, you experience right now, and never any other time, always now.

>You look to future moments, in the present moment. There is only the present moment.

Only as an accounting trick.

People alive have a long series of present moments to go through. And they are conscious of that, and can make plans, and look forward to those.

Dead people don't have anything.

>This isn't a philosophical stance - it's actually a subtle point that isn't obvious until pointed out, everything you experience, you experience right now, and never any other time, always now.

Animals do that (and not sure even for them).

Humans always include the past and the future in their experience of "right now".

If there's "only the present moment", then knowing you have 2 weeks to live because of some sudden severe illness (with no other symptoms except death), would be just as well to anybody. I doubt that this is the case. Of course a stoic can argue otherwise (I don't care what will happen in 2 weeks), but that's a bona fide philosophical stance. Not a subtle point about the human experience.

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#98

Post by majos »

anvandare wrote: post #91
IAmGraydon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious - what is this mindset supposed to accomplish?

All life is suffering, but mercifully it ends with death. However, we don't want to die (because we are so attached to life, it's hard to overrule billions of years of evolution). So we have to endure the suffering until we die on our own, or until the suffering becomes great enough to overcome the mental barrier of suicide. Just as we can train our bodies through exercise to deal with exertion, so too can we train o…

I'm of two minds on this approach. On the one hand, it seems like it would do a good job of toughening a person to the degree that they can cope with more suffering. On the other hand, the belief that life is suffering to be coped with seems somewhat self-fulfilling, and I find it hard to believe that happy moments are as effective if they're perceived in the omnipresent shadow of death.

(I say this having adopted some of these views and found myself at a lower baseline happiness, but also with less variance.)

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#99

Post by danjc »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #17
netc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you suggest few readings?

The Bible edit: For those of you down voting me for whatever reason, can you at least contribute to the discussion and explain how my answer was a poor one? The bible is one of the greatest stories ever told containing a myriad of different ways at looking at life.

The bible reveals that the basic problem humanity has is not lack of a robust life philosophy but rather that we're inherently sinful and thus deserving of death (physical and eternal). That's an offensive message.

It then explains that the remedy to the judgement we deserve is believing in Jesus Christ, who by bearing that judgement, causes our sin to be imputed to himself and his righteousness to be imputed to us. Accepting this requires us to admit we are totally helpless and at God's mercy. That's an even more offensive message.

Re: “Study Death Always”: Seneca’s advice for living centered on dying

#100

Post by euler_ »

seneca wrote: post #61

I wrote this in response to someone asking about other Stoic writings who, in the interim, deleted their response, so I'll post it as a stand-alone response: I'm an avid reader of Stoic philosophy, to the point I would say it's a central pillar of my life. I would strongly advocate anyone interested in Stoicism not read these recent texts first, or, if I'm honest, really at all. I get that they're trying to making it…

I just finished Marcus Aurelius. What would be a good next text?
Post reply on HN