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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

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Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#221

Post by lispm »

ams6110 wrote: post #205
lispm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are insurance membership contributions in Germany. The contributions are specifically used to finance the health system, here the specific health insurer. Taxes generally are not paid for a person, but for things and values, etc.. Taxes are also not bound to a specific purpose, but are going into the general budget of the country/state/town. Taxes and insurance fees are different finance models. In Germany t…

Is it mandatory? If so, it's a tax in my book.

Tax-based (example: NHS of United Kingdom)

Public -> pays to general government budget -> government pays to health care services

vs.

Social Healthcare Insurance (example: Germany)

Employer + Employee + self-employed + Students + Pensioner -> pay to Private/Public Sickness funds/Insurers -> Sickness funds/Insurers pays to health care services

See:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/how-health-care-is...

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#222

Post by btian »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #214
dpflan wrote: post #67

This passage feels like it is premise of the article; the author eventually comes to terms with her tea-sipping and resting as recovery, and this doctor explains the reasoning behind the medical decision-making which is very clear (and mindful/thoughtful) I think. “To paraphrase him [German anesthesiologist], he said: ‘Pain is a part of life. We cannot eliminate it nor do we want to. The pain will guide you. You will…

My suspicion is that paracetamol / acetaminophen and ibuprofen are so incredibly not-good for you, and this anaesthesiologist knows this , that he covering his ass by minimising how much he doles out.

Huh?

You don't need a prescription to get paracetamol, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#223

Post by sundvor »

dpflan wrote: post #67

This passage feels like it is premise of the article; the author eventually comes to terms with her tea-sipping and resting as recovery, and this doctor explains the reasoning behind the medical decision-making which is very clear (and mindful/thoughtful) I think. “To paraphrase him [German anesthesiologist], he said: ‘Pain is a part of life. We cannot eliminate it nor do we want to. The pain will guide you. You will…

The US mind programming of painkillers / drugs as an answer to everything is killing you by the thousands.

I'm glad Australia is taking steps to avoid falling into the same pit.

Sometimes, and at least on scale, a dose of HTFU can be much, much better.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#224

Post by chimeracoder »

Peradine wrote: post #153
Retric wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the average american uses that many pain pills. OTC pain pills are a ~4 billion dollar industry. There are 320 million people so that's ~1$ / month in pain pill per person. And that's including both stuff that goes bad and is never used and daily Aspirin taken for cardiac health. https://www.chpa.org/OTCsCategory.aspx 5% of the population does take daily pain medication. At the same time it's common to…

Approximately 80 percent of the global opioid supply is consumed in the United States, which represents only 5 percent of the global population "There was about 300 million pain prescriptions written in 2015," https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all...

> Approximately 80 percent of the global opioid supply is consumed in the United States, which represents only 5 percent of the global population

That article is borderline irresponsible with how it reports that metric.

80% of global prescription opiate medications are filled in the US, but that doesn't mean that 80% of those prescriptions are consumed in the US (or consumed at all). Nor does it include no-prescription opiates, which are generally much easier to obtain in most countries around the world (and also a lot cheaper) than their prescription counterparts.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#225

Post by problems »

lukeschlather wrote: post #47
problems wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I question the idea that it's beneficial to experience pain - why should I? Especially if it's going to cost me days of my life that I could do something with. Maybe not go out, but at least be able to catch up on some of the more passive content... seems like a needless waste of life.

Pain is really important. You can't properly heal from an injury without pain, because you won't know when you're worsening the injury. In the worst case you'll get into a descending spiral where you need to take more and more painkillers as you attempt to go about your day normally until you've injured yourself to the point where painkillers are no longer able to let you ignore the injury.

And in the best case (and almost 100% of the time) you'll just heal anyways, but won't give a shit about the pain and will actually be able to do stuff.

I think I'll roll that dice, thanks anyways. I'm generally able to restrict myself without the need for pain.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#226

Post by germanier »

lispm wrote: post #172
germanier wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vorweg ist anzumerken, dass die in Deutschland vorgenommene Trennung zwischen Steuern und Sozialabgaben in vielen Staaten nicht üblich ist. Daher verstehen internationale Organisationen unter dem Begriff „Steuern“ („Taxes“) in der Regel die Summe aus Steuern und Sozialabgaben und behandeln die Sozialabgaben („Social Security Contributions“) als Teilbetrag der Steuern. http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/D…

Paper published by the World Health Organization http://www.who.int/health_financing/taxed_based_financing_dp... > Tax-Based Financing for Health Systems: Options and Experiences > social insurance, private insurance and general taxation Social insurance is the German model. > By contrast, Germany's policy to combine its sickness funds into a social health insurance system -- generally credited as the first effort to…

While it certainly makes sense to discuss the difference, for a US-based audience it doesn't make much sense to pedantically point out that these aren't taxes. Social insurance contributions are mandatory, based on income, and to a state entity (though independent from the government) enforced through exactly the same channels as regular taxation (as opposed to private debt).

The important difference is that they are legally committed to a certain issue (in this case: health insurance) and can't be appropriated to something else. That should be pointed out, yes, but the word "taxes" is internationally still appropriate for that.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#227

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

btian wrote: post #222
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My suspicion is that paracetamol / acetaminophen and ibuprofen are so incredibly not-good for you, and this anaesthesiologist knows this , that he covering his ass by minimising how much he doles out.

Huh? You don't need a prescription to get paracetamol, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen

I mean to say: the medical profession probably needs to be cautious with regard to how it goes about advising people to take paracetamol or ibuprofen.

We know they aren't good for you, and I know I've seen at least a few people pop them like candy.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#228

Post by dpkonofa »

curiousgal wrote: post #85

> This, however, is not a story about the benefits of universal health care Despite this phrase and the title (" wanted " as opposed to " needed ") being technically accurate, you'd think the article is going to be the disadvantages of a universal healthcare system but it's not. It's about nothing. Just an entitled patient bugging her doctors to prescribe her Vicodin before her surgery even began and them not doing s…

I think the article tells the opposite story. She's not necessarily entitled, just misinformed and mistaught. She's been taught to rely on pain meds instead of using them as a supplement to understanding the pain. I think it's more of a piece on education related to pain and meds rather than a study on boredom.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#229

Post by [deleted] »

eropple wrote: post #44
problems wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I question the idea that it's beneficial to experience pain - why should I? Especially if it's going to cost me days of my life that I could do something with. Maybe not go out, but at least be able to catch up on some of the more passive content... seems like a needless waste of life.

The experience of pain (and I'm separating this from the dopamine-release thing for people who groove on that sort of thing) is, for my money, a useful training facility for willpower and restraint. Separate from the pain-as-warning-signs noted by 'lukeschlather, few things hurt that much and the fact that you are not the master of even yourself is a valuable reminder. The experience of being uncomfortable is not a b…

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