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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

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Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#91

Post by calvano915 »

zython wrote: post #27
maxxxxx wrote: post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

This make me think: Could this behaviour be influenced by US-american pharma corporations being allowed to run (TV-)ads on prescription medications ?

Pharma ads play a role but hardly explain this behavior. I believe a primary aspect is simply that Americans (including myself) expect and are expected to fill every waking moment with productivity or similar, rather than having flexibility to take a few hours/days/etc off to allow for healing and/or exploration of causalities; we instead use coping strategies and even with lackluster results continue down that road, seeking more alleviation of symptoms - initial, and consequential side effects from treatments for initial - rather than examination of root causes (which are complex and individualized to a large degree).

It doesn't help when others influence by saying "just take ... for that." I can't begin to explain why others do so, except that people generally have good intentions and are empathetic?

TLDR: Americans often don't invest the time and resources to identify and eliminate behaviors/conditions that are the cause of their ailments, and instead cope with any "quick fix" drug/product/strategy that never eliminates the cause of symptoms and often introduces new issues.

Last two thoughts: Many in modern society are very averse to discomfort - understandably, but regardless of degree/origin - and many doctors are happy to feed into this behavior instead of educating the patient that pain is sometimes a part of the process.

Many in modern society lack (or do not have the energy for) self-awareness and/or critical thinking to examine root causes of ailments/symptoms, and instead trust that taking ... will help without understanding the actual mechanisms/effectiveness of the treatment.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#92

Post by madez »

I must applaud the doctors, as they did the right thing, and even gave explicit and detailed explanation. Pain is indeed important. It is a feature, not a bug. If you don't know what resting after a surgery means, then you are in need of more pain, not less, as pain is exactly what effectively teaches you what to do and what not to do.

Also, Ibuprofen is really bad for your kidneys. If you take it, then make sure to drink sufficient water. And don't give Ibuprofen to old people without doctorial advise.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#93

Post by jdavis703 »

teuobk wrote: post #41
wickawic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assure you there are just as many of us with a complete aversion to taking anything at all.

Indeed. Story time! Last Monday evening, I had an accident with an angle grinder in my garage. The cutoff disc went through my leather glove and bit deep into the middle finger of my left hand. After deciding against gluing the cut back together, I drove myself to urgent care and received five stitches. Did I need any painkillers, the doctor asked? I declined; my finger was pumped full of lidocaine at the time. In th…

Well it's a bit tough to do actual work when there's pain that keeps distracting you. In the article the author talks about just needing to rest... But many of us don't really have the luxury of taking multiple days to rest. At least when you're on painkillers you can still do white collar work, albeit at reduced capacity. Without painkillers though, all your mental capacity would be going towards managing the pain.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#94

Post by bambax »

> Stool softeners

Never heard of those. What are they exactly? Orange juice?

I had a minor operation last year, also via laparoscopy. Didn't take any painkillers afterwards, and all was fine.

I think pain has a lot to do with fear: if we don't expect it and we don't know why it's there, it's horrible, but if we know where it comes from and how it's supposed to evolve it's a lot more bearable (within limits of course).

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#95

Post by Johnny555 »

Related: some studies have found that opioids are no better than ibuprofen+acetaminophen:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/as-epidemic-rages-er...

And I believe it.

My wife had somewhat involved oral surgery (1 regular extraction plus removal of 2 impacted molars embedded in her jaw - it was difficult enough that they said a broken jaw during the procedure was a possible complication. The doctor prescribed a week of hydrocodone, and said that she absolutely will need that bottle, and may want a refill.

She didn't want to use the opioids so went with the alternating ibuprofen+acetaminophen route, and though the first couple hours after the Novocain wore off were a little painful, she was pretty comfortable after that.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#97

Post by nosickdays »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #43
cal5k wrote: post #7

I had jaw surgery recently... while I wouldn't describe it as incredibly "painful", particularly since everything was numb (they have to slice through nerves for this procedure), it was really uncomfortable and stressful for a couple of days afterwards. I wasn't at all ashamed to take percocet after the surgery. Could I have lived without them? Sure. Did they turn me into an instant addict? Of course not. This story…

people experiencing legitimate pain are becoming casualties of our crackdown on "inappropriate" prescribing. Perhaps in America they are so easy with the opiates because people have a real or perceived need to get back to work. When I had to have two impacted wisdom teeth removed the pain and swelling was completely under control with ice bags, aspirin and two days off work. A low wage at-will worker in the US can't…

This is a rather salient point. In the Netherlands, if I needed (in consultation with my doctor, of course) to stay out of work for a year to recuperate from illness or injury, I can do that and continue to receive my full salary. The second year would be at 70% salary. My job would await my return - only after 2 years would I be separated from my employer and have access to other long-term disability benefits.

In the US, FMLA generously "guarantees" 12 UNPAID weeks of medical leave in any 12 month period while still being able to return to work (provided you've met other conditions of hours worked, and the location where you work has 50 or more employees, etc etc.) Enforcement may require lawyering up, so it's de facto useless for low-wage workers - or middle-class workers who don't want to be blacklisted from future employment, as, yes, background check databases do prominently flag people who have sued their employers.

And did I mention FMLA leave is unpaid? If you can't afford to take unpaid time off work, you're using vacation days unless you're in one of a handful of localities that require employers offer a few paid sick days per year.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#98

Post by pkilgore »

syshum wrote: post #68
fastball wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're paying for it, I agree with you. But that's not the case in Germany, as they have a single payer healthcare system. That "easy solution" costs other people money.

Which is why I also oppose single payer, but that is a whole other topic. The fact that Single Payer is used to make those justifications is one of my primary reasons to oppose it

Hows that? It's my understanding that in a single payer system you are still allowed to pay for whatever you want or buy supplemental insurance to cover types of care the baseline single payer system will not.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#99

Post by Retric »

eropple wrote: post #33
wickawic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assure you there are just as many of us with a complete aversion to taking anything at all.

Folks not reaching for a pill bottle are pretty rare, IME. I think the author of this article is touching on something pretty valuable with the willingness to be uncomfortable or even to endure pain. When I broke my leg in college, they gave me morphine while I was in the hospital (which just made me annoyed and mad) and I never touched the take-home codeine. Was walking in an air boot "early", too, as I was assured…

I don't think the average american uses that many pain pills.

OTC pain pills are a ~4 billion dollar industry. There are 320 million people so that's ~1$ / month in pain pill per person. And that's including both stuff that goes bad and is never used and daily Aspirin taken for cardiac health. https://www.chpa.org/OTCsCategory.aspx

5% of the population does take daily pain medication. At the same time it's common to go months without taking anything for pain.

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